All season tires

[wparsons]

^^ Do you ever shut up? You're so full of bad information, go back into a hole and hide.

Those links prove nothing about A/S tires being fine in freezing temperatures or snow.

All season tires are junk compared to summer and winter tires. They're a compromise in all conditions at best.

You do know that the requirements for a "winter" tire don't actually involve driving in deep snow, right? That's what "extreme snow" designations are for.

The reason your car is bad in the snow is because you're driving around on 225 width performance snows instead of using your brain and getting a proper studless ice and snow tire. Hell, in Calgary you're allowed to run studded tires for a good reason, yet you're running a tire meant for cold climates that see very little snow. And then you blame the car. Pull your head out of your ass and get a clue man.

You should read the reviews of your tires in snow, the general consensus is they drive like a worn out all season in deep or loose snow.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....S&autoModClar=

http://www.1010tires.com/Tires/Revie...ozero+Serie+II

Now compare that to a proper studless ice/snow tire (x-ice3)

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....S&autoModClar=

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by wparsons

^^ Do you ever shut up? You're so full of bad information, go back into a hole and hide.

Those links prove nothing about A/S tires being fine in freezing temperatures or snow.

All season tires are junk compared to summer and winter tires. They're a compromise in all conditions at best.

You do know that the requirements for a "winter" tire don't actually involve driving in deep snow, right? That's what "extreme snow" designations are for.

The reason your car is bad in the snow is because you're driving around on 225 width performance snows instead of using your brain and getting a proper studless ice and snow tire. Hell, in Calgary you're allowed to run studded tires for a good reason, yet you're running a tire meant for cold climates that see very little snow. And then you blame the car. Pull your head out of your ass and get a clue man.

You should read the reviews of your tires in snow, the general consensus is they drive like a worn out all season in deep or loose snow.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....S&autoModClar=

http://www.1010tires.com/Tires/Revie...ozero+Serie+II

Now compare that to a proper studless ice/snow tire (x-ice3)

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....S&autoModClar=

Just keeping you entertained. You must feel like a pigeon pushing a button.

[mwjcyber]

As @Suberman has pointed out, @wparsons and @dsgerbc are both showing your ignorance of current generation All-Season tires...welcome to 2014 guys. Not all of us live in the Northwest Territory, so good for you with your 3 months a year Summer Tires and 9 months a year snow tires. Not everyone needs f'ing snow tires, but can't drive 12 mo a year on Summer's either. Quit repeating your bullshit "all-season tires suck', and educate yourselves so you stop looking like idiots


Head to head in measured and subjective tests at Michelin's proving ground in New Orleans August 2013, the new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 out performed #2, #5, and #14 on TireRack's Max Performance Summer Tire Survey Results chart. I'd say that's an amazing feat for an All-Season Tire.

#2 - Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position
#5 - Continental ExtremeContact DW
#14 - Pirelli P-Zero

Max Performance Summer Tire Survey Results
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...ay.jsp?type=MP

As for measurable comparisons, look to TireRack's Tire Test Results. You can directly compare the results because they were performed on the same courses, with the same size tires, with the same car...a 2012 BMW F30 328i Sedan.

The competitors:

1. Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position
2. Dunlop Sport Maxx RT
3. Michelin Pilot Super Sport
4. Yokohama ADVAN Sport V105

The results:

1. In the Slalom Time test the A/S 3 was faster than all the the Max summers, including the Pilot Super Sport.
2. The A/S 3's Lap Times were comparable or better than the Max Summer tires.
3. In the Stopping Distance test, all the Max Summers beat the A/S 3 by 4 or more feet.
4. In the Average Cornering tests, only the Pilot Super Sport beat it in both wet and dry.

Ultra High Performance All-Seasons
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=177

Max Performance Summer
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=174

[OICU812]

Last yes from April to October I drove on Michelin Pilot Sport + A/S

Temps in that time frame ranged from 32F - 95F peak. Through dry and wet they were excellent zero complaints, quiete tires and predictable. I did not drive them in any snow and would not, where I live I get specific season tires, mind you the cars been parked since Oct but I'm speaking in general as I drive alot for work and tend to shift tires to seasons to get best performance and most of all safety.

I've had new tires for different wheels in mind now for sometime for next season, however I will admidt with the performance and satisifaction the A/S + gave me last year I am considering them again for another size simply due to the fact of comprimise through a wide range of temperatures and road conditions here is all.. Temps mid summer here can sway from 60 degrees F morning till early evening

100% I understand the limitations of each tire, and even A/S really do not do all that well in dead of winter, for my Tundra I run Nokian tires "studded" here in winter as it makes sense to.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Last yes from April to October I drove on Michelin Pilot Sport + A/S

Temps in that time frame ranged from 32F - 95F peak. Through dry and wet they were excellent zero complaints, quiete tires and predictable. I did not drive them in any snow and would not, where I live I get specific season tires, mind you the cars been parked since Oct but I'm speaking in general as I drive alot for work and tend to shift tires to seasons to get best performance and most of all safety.

I've had new tires for different wheels in mind now for sometime for next season, however I will admidt with the performance and satisifaction the A/S + gave me last year I am considering them again for another size simply due to the fact of comprimise through a wide range of temperatures and road conditions here is all.. Temps mid summer here can sway from 60 degrees F morning till early evening

100% I understand the limitations of each tire, and even A/S really do not do all that well in dead of winter, for my Tundra I run Nokian tires "studded" here in winter as it makes sense to.

I have driven the A/S + in snow, on my 97 SAAB Aero, not noted for grip due to the fwd trying to put down 256 lb ft of torque at 1,800 rpm.

I can assure you these tires are amazing in snow for an all season. Thoroughly competent.

Michelin claims that their A/S 3 is even better in snow than the Plus. I will find out if that's true this November.....after all, my BRZ only puts down 151 lb ft and then only at 6,400 rpm so modulating the puny torque it puts out at 2,000 rpm should be easy.

[OICU812]

Could be ok but I drive on ice roads where proper snow tires and studs are a must is all. My comments were that whatever tire one recommends is based much on their ambient weather. For me here for what could be considered spring to fall A/S do work well and perform decently in all avenues.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by mwjcyber

bla-bla

You do realize that to compare anything seriously you need to run the test on the same day/time with the same driver, right? Max-perf tires were tested in early August, UHP A/S in early September.

Just a different driver would be enough to account for all the difference in slalom/lap times.

I only look at the least subjective numbers. For tirerack tests these are 50mph-0mph ABS braking and cornering Gs. In those A/S are quite behind even in those tests. All the rest is subjective gibberish.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Your turn....

How hard is it to understand? What Michelin says about the competition is irrelevant. What is relevant - what Michelin sells in different categories THEMSELVES. And in that Michelin Pilot Super Sport (This is a 3-season, aka Summer tire) has a significant advantage over A/S 3s. In the dry/wet. And PA4 has a significant advantage over A/S3s on snow/ice. I repeat: Michelin are good, might be the best right now, but the trade offs they face are the same: A/S tires are giving up grip in all conditions relative to the tire tailored to those conditions.

And, for some dumb reader who might think I'm against A/S tires - I'm not, tradeoffs everyone's facing are different. Nothing wrong with A/S tires as long as the user recognizes the tradeoffs, instead of thoughtlessly defending their purchase as the one with the best grip.

Like I said in some other thread (or maybe here) there are millions of people out there that think that A/S tires are somehow better than Summer tires in the rain. It's fine to drive A/S tires in the rain, but one would be giving up grip. It might not matter for a long time, until it does.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by mwjcyber

As @Suberman has pointed out, @wparsons and @dsgerbc are both showing your ignorance of current generation All-Season tires...welcome to 2014 guys. Not all of us live in the Northwest Territory, so good for you with your 3 months a year Summer Tires and 9 months a year snow tires. Not everyone needs f'ing snow tires, but can't drive 12 mo a year on Summer's either. Quit repeating your bullshit "all-season tires suck', and educate yourselves so you stop looking like idiots


Head to head in measured and subjective tests at Michelin's proving ground in New Orleans August 2013, the new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 out performed #2, #5, and #14 on TireRack's Max Performance Summer Tire Survey Results chart. I'd say that's an amazing feat for an All-Season Tire.

#2 - Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position
#5 - Continental ExtremeContact DW
#14 - Pirelli P-Zero

Max Performance Summer Tire Survey Results
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...ay.jsp?type=MP

As for measurable comparisons, look to TireRack's Tire Test Results. You can directly compare the results because they were performed on the same courses, with the same size tires, with the same car...a 2012 BMW F30 328i Sedan.

The competitors:

1. Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position
2. Dunlop Sport Maxx RT
3. Michelin Pilot Super Sport
4. Yokohama ADVAN Sport V105

The results:

1. In the Slalom Time test the A/S 3 was faster than all the the Max summers, including the Pilot Super Sport.
2. The A/S 3's Lap Times were comparable or better than the Max Summer tires.
3. In the Stopping Distance test, all the Max Summers beat the A/S 3 by 4 or more feet.
4. In the Average Cornering tests, only the Pilot Super Sport beat it in both wet and dry.

Ultra High Performance All-Seasons
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=177

Max Performance Summer
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=174

The irony of a guy from a hot climate telling Canadians who are driving in snow right now how good all seasons really are is quite astounding. You do know what kind of weather Calgary gets, right? You also realize that's where Suberman lives? Genius.

1) Good luck driving anywhere near snow with any ultra high performance all seasons. If you're going to drive in snow you NEED proper snow tires. This isn't a myth, or voodoo, it's science. The ultra high performance all seasons are really just summer tires. If you have all seasons that do reasonably well in snow then they're going to suck in the summer. You simply can't make a tire that is good in the warm weather that is also good in the snow. Until cars fly people in snowy climates need separate summer and snow tires. I don't care if the summer tires are all seasons or extreme performance track tires, they just need to be something different than a studless ice/snow tire.

2) I drive my pure summer tires (Dunlop ZII) from April to November without issue, the same amount of time I would be driving on my "summer" tires if they were all seasons. We get snow as early as mid October occasionally, and it snowed in late May this past summer, but typically April through November are warm (and snow free) enough for "summer" tires. On my last car my summer tires were performance all seasons because I cared more about tread life and them being quiet for commuting than I did about ultimate grip, but you better believe they were useless in the snow.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

after all, my BRZ only puts down 151 lb ft and then only at 6,400 rpm so modulating the puny torque it puts out at 2,000 rpm should be easy.

For someone so well versed in all things automotive, you must clearly realize that these cars make about 99% of peak torque by around 2600rpm (before the torque dip) and actually have a very flat (minus the dip) torque curve for a small N/A engine.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by wparsons

For someone so well versed in all things automotive, you must clearly realize that these cars make about 99% of peak torque by around 2600rpm (before the torque dip) and actually have a very flat (minus the dip) torque curve for a small N/A engine.

Geez, it's going to be tougher than I thought to modulate the throttle. 99% of 151 lb ft eh? Sounds like about 149 lb ft......

Oh wait, that's only for an rpm range of about 300 rpm, then it tails off again, I can probably handle it since it's the least powerful car I've driven for many years now.

You clearly are confused about this thread, it isn't comparing all seasons to winter tires. And if you drive in cold weather on summer tires you're just an idiot. Not a lonely idiot mind you but still an idiot. These Michelin all season tires we're all raving about would be perfect for you and prevent your idiocy from hurting anyone.

Oh, and Albuquerque is at around 6,000 ft elevation, twice as high as Calgary, nearly. I think they get winter there. At least where the ironic poster lives. Their airport is a bit lower apparently. You need to get out more.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You clearly are confused about this thread, it isn't comparing all seasons to winter tires. And if you drive in cold weather on summer tires you're just an idiot. Not a lonely idiot mind you but still an idiot. These Michelin all season tires we're all raving about would be perfect for you and prevent your idiocy from hurting anyone.

What are you even talking about? Did you happen to notice the "testing" done for those Michelin's was paid for by Michelin? Not at all biased at all.

If A/S were really as good as you guys are claiming they are in the summer you would see a lot more of them at autoslalom and time attack events.

Are modern A/S better than old ones? Of course. Are they better than a dedicated tire in the conditions they're meant for? Nope.

Originally Posted by Suberman

Oh, and Albuquerque is at around 6,000 ft elevation, twice as high as Calgary, nearly. I think they get winter there. At least where the ironic poster lives. Their airport is a bit lower apparently. You need to get out more.

Well shit, here I was thinking there was more to climate than just elevation.

Since they're at a higher elevation than Calgary the fact that they're about 2500km's straight south is irrelevant and it MUST be colder there.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by wparsons

What are you even talking about? Did you happen to notice the "testing" done for those Michelin's was paid for by Michelin? Not at all biased at all.

If A/S were really as good as you guys are claiming they are in the summer you would see a lot more of them at autoslalom and time attack events.

Are modern A/S better than old ones? Of course. Are they better than a dedicated tire in the conditions they're meant for? Nope.



Well shit, here I was thinking there was more to climate than just elevation.

Since they're at a higher elevation than Calgary the fact that they're about 2500km's straight south is irrelevant and it MUST be colder there.

....much sound and fury signifying nothing.

Look up the rest of the quote, Hamlet.

[mwjcyber]

Let me explain the rationale for all-season tires.


Live in southern states (CA, AZ, TX, FL, etc), you should be driving sticky Summer tires year round.

Live in northern places (MN, New England, Canada), you should have a set of Winter tires and Summer tires

Live in places in between, not enough snow for Winter tires, to cold to drive Summer tires in the winter. Most people in this climate zone, myself included (Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3), run All-Season tires year round...understanding the slight sacrifice of summer handling for year round driveability.

Discussion aside, you should read up on the new Michelin all season tires. They are revolutionary, out perform most other brands summer tires, have decent snow traction, and nearly eliminate the all-season sacrifice you have so deeply ingrained.