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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 03-14-2018, 02:16 AM   #15
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If I wanted much more power and I was thinking about FI, then I would wait for the new Supra or buy the new Cayman. It is not that easy to install a turbo and say you are done. At least if you care for the whole car balance and not just for performance numbers.
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:03 AM   #16
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Regarding the BRZ if I’m buying that it’s not going to be super mods. I may do something but I’m not going to throw $5000 at it, because that almost starts to defeat the low price advantage, it’s one reason why I’m not even looking at the tS (besides the rear wing).

I had owned a 1988 VW Fox which was kind of meh, but I still remember it today because it was small and light weight and simple. As I got older, richer I moved on to more stuff Maxima V6 replaced the Fox, the M3 replaced the S2000.

I’m 52 and all my years driving which is 33 years, owning a lot of cars. Sometimes the better/more expensive car is not always better in every regard. Also I like to find good things in all cars. For example when I got the M3 was also looking at the Civic Si which I know are not the same, but the Si was a nice car (this was the 2007 Civic) had the cool digital split level dash. However I felt like I needed/wanted the M3 because I never had a premium car with big horsepower. While the M3 did make me feel special ever time I drove it, the costs was high probably cost me 3x what a Si would have cost over 6 years.

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Old 03-14-2018, 12:40 PM   #17
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You don't have to mod the BRZ, but you will feel the need to mod the BRZ... Wheels, tires, header, E85flex/fuel kit and a cat back will have you $5000 in BUT the car will be soo much nicer to drive. OR...you could just get a Cayman and not have to fool with it at all other than maintenance items. For most people myself included a Cayman was the next car inline, well before the Mark V Supra became a reality. So idk if you still feel like tinkering around grab a Subi if not buy the Cayman?
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:49 PM   #18
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You don't have to mod the BRZ, but you will feel the need to mod the BRZ... Wheels, tires, header, E85flex/fuel kit and a cat back will have you $5000 in BUT the car will be soo much nicer to drive. OR...you could just get a Cayman and not have to fool with it at all other than maintenance items. For most people myself included a Cayman was the next car inline, well before the Mark V Supra became a reality. So idk if you still feel like tinkering around grab a Subi if not buy the Cayman?
What makes you think people don't mod Caymans? People that are inclined to mod will do it to just about any car they own.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:17 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=Rai-zero;3058055]Regarding the BRZ if I’m buying that it’s not going to be super mods. I may do something but I’m not going to throw $5000 at it, because that almost starts to defeat the low price advantage, it’s one reason why I’m not even looking at the tS (besides the rear wing).

Exactly! The point of a FT-86 is that it has a low base price, and plenty of mod available at reasonable price (+ easy installation). The owner can spent little or much to fit his preference. I spent $15k on my FT-86 to suit me, others may spend more or less to suit theirs.

After mod, my FT-86 costs $45k (before tax), but that is still 30% less than my base Cayman. My wife prefers her FT-86 (after mod), regardless of cost.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:22 PM   #20
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I just wanted to mention that all Caymans, from 2006-present, have the exact same transmission gear ratios and final drive. It's annoying as hell because 1st and 2nd gears are way too tall, and 5th and 6th gears are too short. As Car and Driver recently stated, it's like having a transmission full of 3rd and 4th gears. And you better believe Porsche did this intentionally to keep it less competitive with the 911. (BTW I'm talking about the manual transmission, not PDK. Also I'm referring to the 6sp manual. Earlier Caymans came standard with a 5sp)

As far as Cayman resale values (looking down the road), resale value for the S models will be higher. Most people (for better or worse) prefer the S model, or GTS, etc). The base models are less desirable.

OP, what model year S2000 did you own? Because I owned an AP2 for 4 years (was my first RWD car) and I didn't think the handling on track or off was remotely "tricky" as you described it.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:44 PM   #21
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I just wanted to mention that all Caymans, from 2006-present, have the exact same transmission gear ratios and final drive. It's annoying as hell because 1st and 2nd gears are way too tall, and 5th and 6th gears are too short. As Car and Driver recently stated, it's like having a transmission full of 3rd and 4th gears. And you better believe Porsche did this intentionally to keep it less competitive with the 911. (BTW I'm talking about the manual transmission, not PDK. Also I'm referring to the 6sp manual. Earlier Caymans came standard with a 5sp)

As far as Cayman resale values (looking down the road), resale value for the S models will be higher. Most people (for better or worse) prefer the S model, or GTS, etc). The base models are less desirable.

OP, what model year S2000 did you own? Because I owned an AP2 for 4 years (was my first RWD car) and I didn't think the handling on track or off was remotely "tricky" as you described it.
Was year 2001 (AP1) I should have said in the rain, if I got on power it would waggle a bit in a straight line (fishtail) but never spun on me. I’m not talking bad like a Mustang leaving cars and coffee meet.

I also drove in the snow with snow tires, I’m not sure if it was bad but people were passing me left and right on the HW because I didn’t want to go round and round so was driving very slow, this is one place that I don’t mind stability control,as my M3 was a peach on the HW with snow tires.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:48 PM   #22
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Regarding the tall gears on the Cayman that’s disappointing, it almost seems like Porsche would rather us all buy PDK and not MT because they make the PDK so good and handicap the MT.

I even considered changing the FD gear on the Cayman if I did get one, I did that on the S2000 but it’s kind of a chore to find a place to do the job and calibrate the speedo etc.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
I just wanted to mention that all Caymans, from 2006-present, have the exact same transmission gear ratios and final drive. It's annoying as hell because 1st and 2nd gears are way too tall, and 5th and 6th gears are too short. As Car and Driver recently stated, it's like having a transmission full of 3rd and 4th gears. And you better believe Porsche did this intentionally to keep it less competitive with the 911.

What you just described is a close ratio gearset, which generally makes it MORE track oriented than a transmission with a wider spread of ratios. The 911 also has more power and torque, so it can cope with the wider spacing and still have better straightline performance.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:01 PM   #24
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^I went into extreme detail in another thread, directly comparing a Cayman S's gear ratios against a 911's. It was BS my friend. The 911 has shorter 1st and 2nd gears than the Cayman despite having more power. Porsche did this intentionally. It certainly does not make it a better track performer b/c of it.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:08 PM   #25
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Yeah I hated the long gearing on my Boxster S (987.2 gen). I would redline a few gears on an on-ramp and be well into jailtime speeds.

If you're looking for something like an S2000 coupe, I think the BRZ with a few mods is the closer match than a stock Boxster/Cayman.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:25 PM   #26
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What you just described is a close ratio gearset, which generally makes it MORE track oriented than a transmission with a wider spread of ratios. The 911 also has more power and torque, so it can cope with the wider spacing and still have better straightline performance.
Close ratio is like the new MX5 which is direct drive in 6th no overdrive.

Cayman S from Car and Driver magazine has the flowing speed in gears.

1st 47
2nd 80
3rd 110
4th 136
5th 163
6th 177

Found in another post here (from R&T magazine mph in each gear for the BRZ)

38
58
83
105
127
135 (power limited)

So in the Cayman gears 1-2 is roughly equal to gears 1-3 in the BRZ/86 and forth gear in the Cayman will get you what is essentially the top speed of the BRZ.

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Old 03-14-2018, 02:41 PM   #27
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copy of C&D Cayman S review.

"Geared tall on the low end—redline arrives at 47 mph in first and 80 in second—and short on the high, it’s as though the Cayman has six third and fourth gears."

https://www.caranddriver.com/compari...e-specs-page-4

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Old 03-14-2018, 04:00 PM   #28
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So in the Cayman gears 1-2 is roughly equal to gears 1-3 in the BRZ/86 and forth gear in the Cayman will get you what is essentially the top speed of the BRZ.
Too many gear changes is not good. You lose time. The PDK has shorter ratios, because it is very fast. Additionally, a longer 2nd gear will still pull stronger comparing to shorter 3rd gear if everything else is equal. I'm not saying that it is always perfect to have longer gear and drive ratios, but it is not that bad and you also win in top speed.

Check some examples here. One is a BRZ with a 4.1 final drive ratio and the same car with a 4.88 ratio. Many think that the second will always be faster, but in fact the first one catch up:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X_jYLtoCMg"]BRZ 4.1 vs 4.88 Final Drive Comparison - YouTube[/ame]

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