Should i void my warranty if i plan on building a track car?

[wallace03]

I Can't decide if i want to void my warranty (planning on extending it) with headers and a tune. I plan on building a RSTI for my designated track car, but i still want my BRZ to have a little more zip even as my daily. As of now i would really prefer to stay NA for the responsiveness and reliability. I'm also coming up on 36k miles. Do you guys think replacing the headers and getting a tune is worth voiding the warranty? I know it will ultimately be my decision, so i'm just looking for input.

[Seabrz]

Are you able to take it to it's absolute limits on the track right now? Consistently? If not then I'd suggest you keep the warranty until you reach the limits of the car, then add your mods

[VacantSky]

The dealer has to prove that what you did to the car caused the failure of whatever part you are going in for, if you do go in. Or you can put the stock parts/tune back on the car and play it out that way if something went wrong

I have full NA bolt ons, been driving it like this for a while now. Beat on it often too... no issues. Now at 28,000 miles

[aznatama]

I love how every says "dealer need to prove it" Yeah, okay, and you're going to pay 300/hr minimum for an attorney to fight it? More likely than not, the atty fees will cost more than the repairs, and you do NOT get attorney fees reimbursed. Besides, you should always have comprehensive insurance coverage, which will cover it.

With that being said, tracking your car also voids the warranty, so you might as well just build it out the way you want.

[N1rve]

If you track the car, you'll void the warranty. It's stated plain and simple in the Subaru Manual. Scion doesn't have this restriction oddly.

It's quite odd that how they market the car as a track car, that will void the warranty.

Damage Caused Due to Use of Vehicle in Competitive Events
These warranties do not cover damage to any component that is the result of operating the vehicle in any competition or racing event.

https://www.subaru.com/my-subaru/warranties-2013.html

So even if you keep your car stock and you drive it at the track, you'll void the warranty.

So if you have ANY plans to track the car -- don't count on the warranty.

[CoupedUpSubie]

Originally Posted by aznatama

I love how every says "dealer need to prove it" Yeah, okay, and you're going to pay 300/hr minimum for an attorney to fight it? More likely than not, the atty fees will cost more than the repairs, and you do NOT get attorney fees reimbursed. Besides, you should always have comprehensive insurance coverage, which will cover it.

With that being said, tracking your car also voids the warranty, so you might as well just build it out the way you want.

You need to read the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. If you show that you know what the law says about warranty work then chances are a dealer may back down. You also don't go after repair costs but also add in your lost time and rental costs if it goes that far. There are plenty of ways to come out on top.

[VacantSky]

Originally Posted by aznatama

I love how every says "dealer need to prove it" Yeah, okay, and you're going to pay 300/hr minimum for an attorney to fight it? More likely than not, the atty fees will cost more than the repairs, and you do NOT get attorney fees reimbursed. Besides, you should always have comprehensive insurance coverage, which will cover it.

With that being said, tracking your car also voids the warranty, so you might as well just build it out the way you want.

Look up the Magnuson-Moss warranty Act, everyone says "dealer needs to prove it" for a reason...

[CoupedUpSubie]

Originally Posted by N1rve

So even if you keep your car stock and you drive it at the track, you'll void the warranty.

So if you have ANY plans to track the car -- don't count on the warranty.

It says DAMAGE caused by participating in competitive events. If you take a car to the track and blow the engine up on the track, that won't be covered. If you go to one track day and a year later the engine blows it is very hard for them to say that one track day damaged the engine.

The warranty is voided on the effected part, not the whole car. An axle is not going to hurt the stereo. Just pointing a couple misconceptions out.

[aznatama]

Yes, I know that. But if dealer denies warranty, what do you have to do?

15 U.S. Code § 2304 (c) Waiver of standards:
"The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance)."

Sure warrantor has to prove it, but how are you going to fight it if they say "their techs showed that the damage was caused by the mods?"

Litigation is expensive. You will have to go through lengthy discovery and expert witnesses (easily 500+/hr) and attorney time (300+/hr), as well as court filing fees, your own time spent, etc. etc. etc. Once their experts testifies that your mods caused the damage, the burden will shift to the consumer to prove otherwise. This is where the costs lie. Yes, it works both ways, but if the dealer is confident of it, then they'll fight it if it's a high dollar cost, thereby causing the consumer to not only be stuck with high legal fees, but also likely no car at the end.

This is, of course, worst case. Unlikely to happen, but could. I just hate how ppl say "install a tune from whatever source, install random parts, it won't void your warranty at all!" That's all BS. any tune will likely run outside factor specs, and dealer will likely have papers to show what factory specs are. Jury/judge is unlikely to side w/ consumer. Yes, simple things like air filter won't harm anything unless they find dirt in the engine, but an ecu tune is likely to void warranty.

In any case, comprehensive insurance my friend...

dammit, I need sleep, buzz is wearing off...

[wallace03]

Originally Posted by Seabrz

Are you able to take it to it's absolute limits on the track right now? Consistently? If not then I'd suggest you keep the warranty until you reach the limits of the car, then add your mods

I limited to my tires with the car, but i plan on modding it just for a little more get up on the street as my daily. I plan on building another car designated for the track

Originally Posted by N1rve

If you track the car, you'll void the warranty. It's stated plain and simple in the Subaru Manual. Scion doesn't have this restriction oddly.

It's quite odd that how they market the car as a track car, that will void the warranty.



https://www.subaru.com/my-subaru/warranties-2013.html

So even if you keep your car stock and you drive it at the track, you'll void the warranty.

So if you have ANY plans to track the car -- don't count on the warranty.

I've heard this before. How can they prove that you've tracked it? even if they pull the data, cant you say that you drive super aggressively on the streets?

[aznatama]

Proof can be had from photos of track events with your car in it, pulling track event registration information, and witness observations.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by wallace03

I limited to my tires with the car, but i plan on modding it just for a little more get up on the street as my daily. I plan on building another car designated for the track



I've heard this before. How can they prove that you've tracked it? even if they pull the data, cant you say that you drive super aggressively on the streets?

This has been covered before.

Originally Posted by ft86Fan

Some manufactures actually have "spies" at events and will put you on a black list. Others will check local autocross event results.

Haven't you read the Evo incident?

An Evo owner in Utah told Car and Driver that two weeks after he'd competed in an SCCA Solo II autocross, his car blew two connecting rods, which also ruined the turbocharger in the process. (Solo II racing involves coned courses in parking lots, and speeds rarely exceed 60 mph.) At the dealership, the owner said his warranty was voided even before the engine was examined, an action he said was based on computer information that he had participated in the autocross.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/evo...tions-car-news

[aznatama]

Also, keep in mind that lying about going to the track constitutes fraud, a state and federal crime. Take it how you will, but that's the law.

We enthusiasts take this risk in exchange for personal pleasures. If the risked occurrence manifests itself, then you should be prepared to foot the bill. Don't play if you can't afford to pay.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by aznatama

Jury/judge is unlikely to side w/ consumer.

That's not really true. There is a bias in the courts against companies and for consumers. There's an assumption that the companies have deep pockets and consumers don't, so the company usually has to jump through more hoops to prove its case. Somebody posted here not long ago that he had worked in the service department of a dealership when they went to court and had an owner dead to rights regarding mods, but the judge sided with the owner anyway because the dealer had deeper pockets.

What a dealer will do is use the process to make fighting them inconvenient. You may ultimately win your case and get reimbursed for your expenses, but in the mean time you have to front the costs of fighting it and deal with a lack of transportation if it's your only car. Many (if not most) sales contracts include an arbitration clause, which the company will use to try to scare you into thinking you won't win.

That doesn't mean you can't call their bluff. If you show a knowledge of the law and indicate that you don't intend to back down, they may reconsider their position. Most people simply don't fight back.

Originally Posted by aznatama

Also, keep in mind that lying about going to the track constitutes fraud, a state and federal crime. Take it how you will, but that's the law.

We enthusiasts take this risk in exchange for personal pleasures. If the risked occurrence manifests itself, then you should be prepared to foot the bill. Don't play if you can't afford to pay.

All true. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try if the mod didn't cause the issue.