RACESENG X PENSKE | The Ultimate Racing Shocks

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

there's a guy out in the states (Fat Cat Motorsports) that rebuilds bilstein units to a completely different philosophy than what's generally available off the shelf.

It's funny you bring them up; I have a friend who declined a job offer from them in lieu of Megan Racing.

[juliog]

Can we get Tein SRC++ performance and stock++ comfort if we throw enough money at these Penskes? Doable on 2-ways, or 3-ways a necessity to achieve the comfort goal over speed bumps and potholes at low speed?

[Captain Snooze]

With respect to @RBbugBITme
I do not doubt for a microsecond anything you have said about Penske dampers BUT I will throw in my 18 cents.
1/ Most people on this forum (and most other car forums from what I gather ) aren't willing to spend the amount of money required for high end dampers.
2/ You are in the U.S. where there is local support for just about everything. When I contacted the Penske distributor in Australia I was advised I would be better off with some re-valved Bilsteins. How do you think that made me feel?
3/ As an add-on to 2/ local support is much more important than ultimate quality. That is, it is not much use having the ultimate dampers if one has to send them overseas every time you want them serviced.

/rant

[RJasonKlein]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

1/ Most people on this forum (and most other car forums from what I gather ) aren't willing to spend the amount of money required for high end dampers.

I understand the nature of your comment, but for those that are willing to spend the money, having the option of Penske dampers is a big plus. I don't think you meant to dissuade a manufacturer of their stature from developing products of this caliber for our platform, but it could be interpreted that way. I think we're very lucky to have Raceseng and Penske collaborating on this project.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by RJasonKlein

I don't think you meant to dissuade a manufacturer of their stature from developing products of this caliber for our platform, but it could be interpreted that way.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! I am excited that such an option will exist for the platform and I appreciate the fact that Penske is going to the trouble of making a product for the platform.


I have mentioned a couple of times in random posts I am sometimes envious of the amount of choice car modders have for their cars in the U.S.

[ajc209]

With all due respect Ryan. I know/have met some engineers from Ohlins and Bilstein who also make very compelling arguements about why their top end stuff is the best....

I would be very interested to see the differences betwen a Penske one way vs Ohlins R&T (with the Penskes set up fro road comfort like the Ohlins for a fair comparason). Damper curves would be a nice start. Track data would also be very nice.

Looking forward to see these develop.

[RBbugBITme]

Originally Posted by juliog

Can we get Tein SRC++ performance and stock++ comfort if we throw enough money at these Penskes? Doable on 2-ways, or 3-ways a necessity to achieve the comfort goal over speed bumps and potholes at low speed?

Yeah, a great driver wouldn't throw down the best lap times but you'll be happy on the street. My setup on my Vette takes train tracks better than my stock Volvo. I'm looking forward to getting even stiffer once I put regressive pistons in.

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

With respect to @RBbugBITme
I do not doubt for a microsecond anything you have said about Penske dampers BUT I will throw in my 18 cents.
1/ Most people on this forum (and most other car forums from what I gather ) aren't willing to spend the amount of money required for high end dampers.
2/ You are in the U.S. where there is local support for just about everything. When I contacted the Penske distributor in Australia I was advised I would be better off with some re-valved Bilsteins. How do you think that made me feel?
3/ As an add-on to 2/ local support is much more important than ultimate quality. That is, it is not much use having the ultimate dampers if one has to send them overseas every time you want them serviced.

/rant

1) We don't survive on most people. We survive on the few willing to pay for the best.

2) I'm sorry to hear that. We are not great at support internationally but we are working on it. We have SPA in England, a company I can't think of in Japan and Bill McKenna in Australia. I'm going to have to see why he would say something like that. Please confirm it was Bill you spoke to.

3) Agreed. That's why MCS dominates down under.

Originally Posted by ajc209

With all due respect Ryan. I know/have met some engineers from Ohlins and Bilstein who also make very compelling arguements about why their top end stuff is the best....

I would be very interested to see the differences betwen a Penske one way vs Ohlins R&T (with the Penskes set up fro road comfort like the Ohlins for a fair comparason). Damper curves would be a nice start. Track data would also be very nice.

Looking forward to see these develop.

No disrespect taken. We see this comparison all the time. With a pro driver its not even close. A lot of stuff up to that price point can lose well over a second per lap on a course like Daytona's road course. I promise the difference between a sub-$3k kit and ours isn't all profit.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by RBbugBITme

No disrespect taken. We see this comparison all the time. With a pro driver its not even close. A lot of stuff up to that price point can lose well over a second per lap on a course like Daytona's road course. I promise the difference between a sub-$3k kit and ours isn't all profit.

Are you able to procure these reports for our digestion? Or is all in-house research.

[RBbugBITme]

Most of it is from the team engineer telling us what their data showed. We don't pay for our own back to back tests, though I did make a suggestion like that for a magazine article last week!

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by RBbugBITme

No disrespect taken. We see this comparison all the time. With a pro driver its not even close. A lot of stuff up to that price point can lose well over a second per lap on a course like Daytona's road course. I promise the difference between a sub-$3k kit and ours isn't all profit.

Ah sorry mate, I wasnt trying to imply the Ohlin R&T is as good as a sinlge adjustable Penske, but rather i'd like the differences to be quanified by actual test data

The ohlins 4 way F1 dampers are pretty good I hear

Most of the British Touring Cars use Penske Dampers

1 seconds is impressive. I await testing data

[RBbugBITme]

Originally Posted by ajc209

Ah sorry mate, I wasnt trying to imply the Ohlin R&T is as good as a sinlge adjustable Penske, but rather i'd like the differences to be quanified by actual test data

The ohlins 4 way F1 dampers are pretty good I hear

Most of the British Touring Cars use Penske Dampers

1 seconds is impressive. I await testing data

If Ohlin's puts adjustable dampers on F1 cars then they're doing it wrong... See Mercedes for how to do it right.

[kask2_6.0]

Originally Posted by RBbugBITme

Here are a few things that I think make Penske special...

1) Our materials, design, and pursuit of reduced friction is probably the best of any shock company in the world. I can say this without hesitation because almost every single major shock brand, really every one that can compete with us at the F1/LMP1/NASCAR/GT3 level, makes all of their profit from supplying OEMs and OEMs don't care about having the best shock. They buy a full car set from Ohlin's/Sachs/Bilstein/Koni/Multimatic for $300-$800 regardless of whether its a Dodge Dart or the new Ford GT. 100% of Penske profits come from racing (and now Trek Mtn. bikes), we don't do anything else outside of some crazy special projects people come to us with.

I have oodles and oodles of anecdotal and scientific evidence to back that up, most of which I'd rather not say on a public forum. The OEM's know it too, GM comes to us for a their R&D setups and they choose us for the Corvette racing team. They've tested the bending stiffness of our strut against theirs and other big names, thats part of why our strut cars can brake harder than others. Our Ford Mustangs are faster than Mustangs with Multimatic stuff but because the two businesses are tied together we'll never be on a factory supported car.

^ This. Penske's are the best. Unfortunately you are going to have to take @RBbugBITme's word for it though. And the many championships that back it up. Some companies don't share data because either a) they don't actually have it or b) they don't want to prove to everyone their product sucks. This is not the case here. At the highest level of motorsports the best don't share secrets to maintain that edge over everyone else.

How exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does the sun set? How exactly does the Posi-trac rear end on a Plymouth work? It just does.

Source: I have done some of said R&D for penske as well as product comparisons when I was in the industry. Unlike other manufacturers Penske works very closely with many race teams and uses the feadback to improve the product and push the boundaries of damper technology. I can't say Ohlins was as willing to work with us on the TTX..

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by RBbugBITme

If Ohlin's puts adjustable dampers on F1 cars then they're doing it wrong... See Mercedes for how to do it right.

haha - They were for the Toyota F1 car which didnt do all that well.....No idea if they supply any teams now. They are not all using Penske on the grid are they?

[RBbugBITme]

We're not on all the cars but we probably have more than any other, Mercedes being one of the few I can mention. Sometimes we're only on the front or the rear or the central units or the throttle damper for various reasons. Sometimes another shock company pays the team to say their stuff is on the car when its ours or they pay for the ability to put their stuff on the car.

I wish I could post pictures of this and LMP1 stuff, you almost couldn't tell there was a damper in there with everything else going on.