President of SOA says BRZ needs more performance

[tahdizzle]

I'm just saying if they put a fa20dit in the next gen, a swap would be mo eezi to get BAR'd in cali.

[ScoobsMcGee]

Originally Posted by soulreapersteve

Don't forget taking off your steering wheel while cruising down a street!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb43Nxuwc4I"]Tego się nie spodziewałem / Rally without steering wheel [EnjoyDriving.pl] - YouTube[/ame]


As for the video, it is easy to speculate any number of things from the quotes and facial expressions. I'll just keep enjoying the BRZ I have and take it from there.

[Vides990]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

My interpretation was he doesn't want the BRZ as it exists now.

He also talks about wanting to keep the full lineup AWD. Combine that with the "more power" comment and I get the impression Subaru wants to move away from Toyota with the BRZ and build something totally different.

Yup, I agree, and based on Toyota working with BMW on the next gen 86 chasis I think this happens. Last year Subaru reupped the SVX name and everyone recalls their BRZ hot hatch concept which had the additional clearance and height to add awd/turbo, I think the FRS will live on and the BRZ will die as the companies split for the gen 2.

[86Tony]

They need more reliable first before they add power

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by 86Tony

They need more reliable first before they add power

I'm curious, what problems are you experiencing? Not saying there are none but they seem to be very low number of issues at this point.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Vides990

Yup, I agree, and based on Toyota working with BMW on the next gen 86 chasis I think this happens. Last year Subaru reupped the SVX name and everyone recalls their BRZ hot hatch concept which had the additional clearance and height to add awd/turbo, I think the FRS will live on and the BRZ will die as the companies split for the gen 2.

I don't.

Sales are low in Europe, but strong in North America and Asia. The BRZ is especially hot in North America. Sales are expected to decline as a model ages. Don't let the auto press fool you here. Overall the 86 is selling quite well and both singularly and combined Toyota and Subaru move many more units annually than Mazda moves MX-5s.

Scion FR-S
Subaru BRZ
U.S. Sales / Canadian Sales

2012

11,417 / 1,470
4,144 / 504
2013

18,327 / 1,825
8,587 / 1,119
2014

14,062 / 1,559
7,504 / 922
2015 YTD *

5,748 /696
2,809 / 510

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html

Mazda MX-5 Miata
U.S. Sales /Canadian Sales

2002

14,392/n/a
2003

10,920 / n/a
2004

9356/1146
2005

9801/857
2006

16,897/1582
2007

15,075 /1814
2008

10,977/1407
2009

7917/ 850
2010

6370/736
2011

5674 / 612
2012

6305 /711
2013

5780 /554
2014

4745 / 511
2015 YTD *

2654 /269

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Nissan 370Z
U.S. Sales /Canadian Sales
2002

13,253/n/a
2003

36,728 /n/a
2004

30,690/ 983
2005

27,278 /700
2006

24,635 /624
2007

18,957 /469
2008

10,337 /311
2009

13,117 / 567
2010

10,215 /899
2011

7328 /453
2012

7338 / 489
2013

6561 /452
2014

7199 /411
2015 YTD *

4001 /309

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

As you can see, there is no reason for Subaru to kill the BRZ. Talking about more sales does not equal that the car is selling poorly. The cars are moving.

Subaru will get at least Gen 2 as it will use the same chassis and powerplant as the current car. A purpose built chassis like this doesn't just get one go-around. It will feature an updated FA20 with revisions to the exhaust header and intake to reduce the torque dip and add about 10-15 BHP. Gen 2 will have a revised front and rear fascia and a revised center console stack. it will also probably come with stickier tires.

Gen 3 who knows.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Vides990

Yup, I agree, and based on Toyota working with BMW on the next gen 86 chasis I think this happens. Last year Subaru reupped the SVX name and everyone recalls their BRZ hot hatch concept which had the additional clearance and height to add awd/turbo, I think the FRS will live on and the BRZ will die as the companies split for the gen 2.

No, Toyota is working with BMW on the FT-1. The FT-1 isn't a replacement for the twins.

Originally Posted by 86Tony

They need more reliable first before they add power

The twins are reliable in the grand scheme of things...

[krayzie]

Very apparent that SOA has no idea how to sell the BRZ because American car executives only know how to equate car performance with engine output due to the vast ruler straight roads we have here in North America.

I don't think there will be a 2nd gen BRZ if Toyota doesn't need Subaru's production line anymore. The 86 should get another round to co-exist with the next Supra, and supposedly a 3rd sports car to round out the lower end in order to complete the trio (I keep thinking MR2 here).

It will probably make more sense to marketing if Subaru then utilizes the freed up production capacity to do an Alcyone (meaning a true sports flagship with AWD) for a 3rd time. But I really hope Subaru gets a new head stylist first and maybe bring back frameless windows to the entire lineup for starters (the current lineup is so ugly it makes even the Leone looked fantastic in comparison).

[TheBRZ]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Very apparent that SOA has no idea how to sell the BRZ because American car executives only know how to equate car performance with engine output due to the vast ruler straight roads we have here in North America.

I don't think there will be a 2nd gen BRZ if Toyota doesn't need Subaru's production line anymore. The 86 should get another round to co-exist with the next Supra, and supposedly a 3rd sports car to round out the lower end in order to complete the trio (I keep thinking MR2 here).

It will probably make more sense to marketing if Subaru then utilizes the freed up production capacity to do an Alcyone (meaning a true sports flagship with AWD) for a 3rd time. But I really hope Subaru gets a new head stylist first and maybe bring back frameless windows to the entire lineup for starters (the current lineup is so ugly it makes even the Leone looked fantastic in comparison).

I'm with you. Toyota is working on more sportscars, makes sense to get a own production line.

And things did cool between Toyota and Subaru, remember the FT86 Open Prototype they showed in 2013... Toyota didn't tell Subaru, they found out by seeing the car at the motor show

[Vides990]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I don't.


Subaru will get at least Gen 2 as it will use the same chassis and powerplant as the current car. A purpose built chassis like this doesn't just get one go-around. It will feature an updated FA20 with revisions to the exhaust header and intake to reduce the torque dip and add about 10-15 BHP. Gen 2 will have a revised front and rear fascia and a revised center console stack. it will also probably come with stickier tires.

Gen 3 who knows.

I wasn't using sales as a precursor on why I think Subaru will kill the BRZ (and honestly no they arent good when looking at the brz specifically). My reasoning is the disolving relationship between toyota and subaru and the brz not fitting into their product line.

I also mentioned they wouldn't stop utilzing the production line and assembly process they've created for the brz but instead would offer a product much more in-line with their corporate policies, a rebooted SVX, giving customers the awd/turbo they've all been asking for.

The brz will most likely get some tweaks and a facelift but thats not a Gen 2 vehicle, and there have been plenty of cars over the years where a 2nd gen was never offered, I expect the brz to fall into that category eventually.

[Vides990]

Originally Posted by Poodles

No, Toyota is working with BMW on the FT-1. The FT-1 isn't a replacement for the twins.

Actually yes, Toyota and BMW are discussing the 2nd gen 86, not just the ft-1/supra/z4 project, see links.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/bummaru...le-generation/

http://www.gtspirit.com/2014/10/14/t...neration-gt86/

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar165774.html

I know the FT-1 is the Supra and not a replacement for the 86 but the toyota bmw partnership is driving other changes and rumors are clearly out there that subaru might get left behind with bmw filling the void. Obviously this is all very circumstantial and nothing is official but with Subaru reupping the SVX nameplate and Toyota/BMW working closely together on a variety of projects, Tada himself saying so, there is some writing on the wall. There's also rumors out there BMW wants a smaller sports car to market below the Z4.....

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Vides990

I wasn't using sales as a precursor on why I think Subaru will kill the BRZ (and honestly no they arent good when looking at the brz specifically). My reasoning is the disolving relationship between toyota and subaru and the brz not fitting into their product line.

I also mentioned they wouldn't stop utilzing the production line and assembly process they've created for the brz but instead would offer a product much more in-line with their corporate policies, a rebooted SVX, giving customers the awd/turbo they've all been asking for.

The brz will most likely get some tweaks and a facelift but thats not a Gen 2 vehicle, and there have been plenty of cars over the years where a 2nd gen was never offered, I expect the brz to fall into that category eventually.

Bookmarked for 2018

[Vides990]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Bookmarked for 2018

lol i wont have a problem being wrong, that way i can buy the car again

[krayzie]

The real E30 / Altezza successor would have a higher probability of returning if BMW engineers the chassis and Toyota engineers the powertrain.