World's first FT86 Anti-Reversion,(A/R) Header

[kidgogeta]

If your ever up in bellingham area on the weekends give me a shout, I'll drive down from the border to come drive this, also drive an auto FRS so can help you give some good impressions and would love to find a solid solution to low end torque. I've got the headerback and just installed GS intake which makes the car pull significantly harder from 4000+ need to do something about the low end tho

[industrial]

This is so far from good science it's not worth dissecting. The cure for your automatic acceleration woes is a 4.5FD, not statically reducing the effective diameter of your exhaust ports. You guys are looking for low end torque in a NA high strung 2.0 four cylinder engine. The mind boggles.

[KoolBRZ]

Just softened my rear springs by 3/8" to loosen them back up from tightening them by 1/2" to compensate for droop and weight of pc repair parts and tools I always carry in the trunk. Took it for a test drive to my favorite 90 degree corners. Wow, the traction control have never been so annoying! Someone says they have low-end torque, ask them if their TC light keeps flashing every time they gas it in a corner. I would have just turned it off, but I have my snows on and I don't want to wear them out. I didn't have this much TC/AS/SC trouble when I had my turbo. I've got to get this on a dyno!

[Wayno]

Seems like a lot of work (and extra exhaust manifold turbulence) for something you can fix with a better header or 4.5FD or 4.88FD or better fuel or driving the car the way it's supposed to be (not in manual mode at < 2000rpm). Skeptical. Good on you for trying something different though.

[KoolBRZ]

People who drive the car the way it's supposed to be live on a flat earth and drive a completely stock sports car holding up traffic granny shifting to get better mileage. I've learned to question authority, always, and this car isn't built right. The seats are too hard, the bolsters too tight, sway bars too thick, suspension compression damping too high, wheels too large and heavy, tires too narrow, stereo missing rear midrange/woofers, intake too restrictive, exhaust too restrictive, and I could go on. I love the car, and so I fix what i can, new suspension, new intake, and new exhaust have done wonders. I've got so much more torque now that I can't even touch the throttle in a corner without lighting up the "nanny" dashboard lights, cutting the throttle and buzzing the brakes. How hard do you have to push it before the "nannys" light up?

[kbye]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

People who drive the car the way it's supposed to be live on a flat earth and drive a completely stock sports car holding up traffic granny shifting to get better mileage. I've learned to question authority, always, and this car isn't built right. The seats are too hard, the bolsters too tight, sway bars too thick, suspension compression damping too high, wheels too large and heavy, tires too narrow, stereo missing rear midrange/woofers, intake too restrictive, exhaust too restrictive, and I could go on.

While I commend your effort in trying something new and look forward to results, I disagree with your above statement. Everything you just said was subjective, I could make counter-points for all the negatives you listed.
Engineers build to the best of their ability while taking into account the parameters they are confined to including safety, emissions, reliability, cost, and scalability. And you can't fault them for that, otherwise we would not be driving these cars today.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

People who drive the car the way it's supposed to be live on a flat earth and drive a completely stock sports car holding up traffic granny shifting to get better mileage. I've learned to question authority, always, and this car isn't built right. The seats are too hard, the bolsters too tight, sway bars too thick, suspension compression damping too high, wheels too large and heavy, tires too narrow, stereo missing rear midrange/woofers, intake too restrictive, exhaust too restrictive, and I could go on. I love the car, and so I fix what i can, new suspension, new intake, and new exhaust have done wonders. I've got so much more torque now that I can't even touch the throttle in a corner without lighting up the "nanny" dashboard lights, cutting the throttle and buzzing the brakes. How hard do you have to push it before the "nannys" light up?

bro we are all questioning your butt dyno. either you had the world's worst turbo setup or your mind has truly dissuaded your ability to sense power levels because you're so wrapped up in the idea that these things actually will provide the solution to these FA20s' (designed) lack of torque through the low RPM powerband.

Get it on the dyno then come back to us, until then these videos mean nothing. Looks about as fast as a stock manual imo.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I have been using the OpenFlash tablet for tuning, and even when I had the turbo I noticed the same thing, when I installed larger aftermarket exhaust I lost low-end torque and MPG. I've had catted and catless headers midpipes, flow-through and restrictive mufflers, and the results have always been the same, the less back-pressure there is, the less torque and MPG, regardless of which tune I was running. Maybe this A/R header is finally giving enough restriction for me to run a free-flowing exhaust. I don't know why it works, but it definitely works. I'll try getting some video today.

While you may be confident making definitive conclusions based upon your butt-dyno and rudimentary comparative mpg measurements, I shall reserve my judgment pending before and after dyno results.

I do appreciate what you're trying here but think thus far it is too much subjective opinion and not enough science. As for your opinion of the GT86, I agree somewhat. I would rather have a Porsche Cayman S but I couldn't find a new one for $25k.

[Akari]

I'd love to see some dynos as well, I'm willing to bet there are a few things going on here that make me question the validity of this.

First, you've moved to a more efficient catless 4-2-1 header, you would have picked up some power/torque regardless of what diameter your runners are. If I recall, Nameless Performance experimented with smaller diameter runners and did find more low-mid end torque but with a significant drop off up top.

Second, what are you doing tune wise? If you're changing backpressure and flow characteristics without accounting for them properly in your tune you are likely to not be running at optimal performance or efficiency. That doesn't necessarily say it's a better setup, more that it just behaves closer to what the computer is expecting and thus it can run your setup fairly efficiently.

Again, I love to see people experimenting and testing, but if you can get some data around the seat of your pants feeling it would solidify a lot here.


Personally I saw no MPG drop with overpipe/frontpipe/catback nor when I installed my UEL header. Potentially this is more of a problem with automatics based on gearing/shifting differences?

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Koa

bro we are all questioning your butt dyno. either you had the world's worst turbo setup or your mind has truly dissuaded your ability to sense power levels because you're so wrapped up in the idea that these things actually will provide the solution to these FA20s' (designed) lack of torque through the low RPM powerband.

Get it on the dyno then come back to us, until then these videos mean nothing. Looks about as fast as a stock manual imo.

Oh, and when was the last time YOU lit up your TC dashlight?

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Oh, and when was the last time YOU lit up your TC dashlight?

Everytime I stomp on the accelerator like a moron in 1st gear mid corner.
Sounds like suberman is back again.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by industrial

This is so far from good science it's not worth dissecting. The cure for your automatic acceleration woes is a 4.5FD, not statically reducing the effective diameter of your exhaust ports. You guys are looking for low end torque in a NA high strung 2.0 four cylinder engine. The mind boggles.

nothing a stroker kit wont help with. but its not like everyone going to cross shop a stroker kit with some new header designs...

[Fizz]

How much does that header cost?
How much do those AR cones cost?
How much does it cost to get them welded in?

Why didn't you just get a different/better header with dyno proven results? But good on you for doing something different, but i feel its just a waste of money and time if you didn't have any data to back up your subjective feelings.

[KoolBRZ]

Let's clarify a few things. I'm driving an automatic BRZ. It's geared much taller than the manual. It takes a lot more umph to break a tire loose in an automatic. My 4th gear is equal to the manual's 6th gear. I have already tried the Unichip piggyback unit, and have been using the OpenFlash tablet for tuning. I have had a completely catless exhaust with dual flow-through mufflers. I have had a turbo, but it wasn't right for a variety of reasons. This is the 3rd after-market header I've tried. I'm using the Unichip CAI for a low-restriction intake right now, but I feel there are better CAI's out there. For whatever reason, an open, unrestricted exhaust has always been disappointing below 3500 RPM's, moving the torque further up the power band, rather than further down, where it needs to be for an automatic, and the mileage has always gone down. I've seen dyno's of AR inserts in Harley's and they show less low-end torque and less top-end power. Experts mentioned they would only recommend them for extremely over-sized exhausts. From what I've read, my header should not perform like I say it does. All I can say is maybe I got lucky. I'll try to line up some test drives with other automatic owners in the area. I don't expect you to believe my lame video or butt-dyno impressions, especially when the "facts" contradict them, but maybe you'll believe other drivers, after they've driven my car. I'm being real here. I don't know all the answers, but if people don't question limitations, how can they get past them?