New Hawk HP + compound

[Hyper4mance2k]

Hey all! I thought I would let it be known that Hawk is coming out with a new track/street pad for our cars soon. I met someone at hawk who told me if I like the HP+, that I should hold out on buying them for a few months; because, they will be releasing a new pad that is similar in stopping power and fade resistance to the HP+ with little to no noise.

This is a big upgrade for us weekend warriors who have wives and girlfriends who complain about the brake noise on date night.

LOL Happy motoring!

[celica73]

Interesting. I love my HP+ pads except for the noise (which has been pretty good lately?). I'd definitely buy the same thing with less noise.

[DarkSunrise]

Awesome. I had been thinking about HP+ as my next brake pad. Will be interesting to see how these are with the new compound.

[jflogerzi]

Keep my eye out. I have Projct Mu HC800+ pads. Pretty decent hybrid pads.

[SeanRTR]

There's actually going to be two different compounds coming out....

There's going to be one that's a bit more aggressive than the HPS, but not quite as much as the HP+(less dust/noise), This is coming out VERY soon. Called the HPS 5.0
http://www.hawkperformance.com/perfo...ance-street-50

Then I hear there's going to be a pad that's just a bit more aggressive than the HP+ that is better suited for heavy track use, while maintaining the characterics necessary for street driving.

However, the front for the FR-S wasn't on the first list of upcoming applications, which is disappointing as I'd really like to try a set of those HPS 5.0 pads....I expect this to be addressed though. I think this would be a fantastic, and potentially the perfect autocross pad for any FR-S running street tires.

[OrbitalEllipses]

If the WRX was on the list, then we get fronts at least. Rears are more trouble: 2010 LGT fitment.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

There's actually going to be two different compounds coming out....

There's going to be one that's a bit more aggressive than the HPS, but not quite as much as the HP+(less dust/noise), This is coming out VERY soon. Called the HPS 5.0
http://www.hawkperformance.com/perfo...ance-street-50

Then I hear there's going to be a pad that's just a bit more aggressive than the HP+ that is better suited for heavy track use, while maintaining the characterics necessary for street driving.

However, the front for the FR-S wasn't on the first list of upcoming applications, which is disappointing as I'd really like to try a set of those HPS 5.0 pads....I expect this to be addressed though. I think this would be a fantastic, and potentially the perfect autocross pad for any FR-S running street tires.

I find the existing HP+ doesn't hold up well at a track day in our car for more than a couple of laps. I ended up boiling fresh RBF600 and quit the day early rather than blow a braking zone and end up in the tire wall.

On stock rotors at least, I feel you will need at least another 200-300 degrees F more in the operating range. If I remember right the HP+ is good to 900 F. I am pulling these numbers from my butt - if anyone has cold (heh) hard data to share on stock rotor temps, I'd love to see it.

Point being, I'm a little skeptical the newer HP+ will be a viable track day option - if they even make it for our car. Their lack of track options for us is disappointing.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by renfield90

I find the existing HP+ doesn't hold up well at a track day in our car for more than a couple of laps. I ended up boiling fresh RBF600 and quit the day early rather than blow a braking zone and end up in the tire wall.

On stock rotors at least, I feel you will need at least another 200-300 degrees F more in the operating range. If I remember right the HP+ is good to 900 F. I am pulling these numbers from my butt - if anyone has cold (heh) hard data to share on stock rotor temps, I'd love to see it.

Point being, I'm a little skeptical the newer HP+ will be a viable track day option - if they even make it for our car. Their lack of track options for us is disappointing.

If you're boiling fluid before getting pad fad, it's not the fault of the pads... are you sure you actually boiled the fluid and didn't just get serious pad fade?

The symptoms are VERY different. Pad fade you have a hard pedal, but no bite from the pads. Boiled fluid the pedal goes to the floor and you have no hydraulic pressure.

I would believe HP+ getting horrible pad fade, but I can't imagine you boiled RBF600 before getting pad fade.

[SeanRTR]

How can you say Hawk has terrible offereings for our cars, they make like 4 different race compounds that are more aggressive than the HP+, what exactly are you looking for?

What track is this, and at what speeds are you braking from. You can't expect a 'street' pad to handle 100 MPH+ stops going balls out every lap.

The guy above is right, if you're boiling the fluid, you need to step up the the STR660 fluid.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by wparsons

If you're boiling fluid before getting pad fad, it's not the fault of the pads... are you sure you actually boiled the fluid and didn't just get serious pad fade?

The symptoms are VERY different. Pad fade you have a hard pedal, but no bite from the pads. Boiled fluid the pedal goes to the floor and you have no hydraulic pressure.

I would believe HP+ getting horrible pad fade, but I can't imagine you boiled RBF600 before getting pad fade.

It actually depends on the rate at which you're heating the system up. If you get a quick burst of heat, then the pads will fade first, because the heat is initially at the surface of the pads and rotors, and quickly conducts out. This is why you see glowing brakes on race cars in the braking zones, and the glowing quickly disappears. The brakes are not dissipating heat that quickly! Orange brakes are ~1400F, and color starts to show at ~900F.

If you slowly heat the system, slow enough that you never get the surface temps high enough to fade the pads, the entire system (calipers and rotors) are still slowly heating up. Eventually, the calipers will get hot enough to boil the fluid, but before the pads fade.

Remember RBF600 boils at around 600F, but the pads give out at 900F. If the heat impulses are 200F at a time, you can boil the fluid, without having the pads give out.

Either way, we don't recommend RBF600 or HP+ for the stock braking system.

Side note: If you're boiling RBF600, which is really, really common, it really means your brakes are inadequate for you use. You're heating up the caliper more than it is designed for, and in the long run, will result in fatigue. The solution (albeit expensive up front) is a BBK. I've learned this the hard way...

AP Racing sells temp indicator strips and paint, so that you can measure how hot your caliper and rotors get.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

How can you say Hawk has terrible offereings for our cars, they make like 4 different race compounds that are more aggressive than the HP+, what exactly are you looking for?

What track is this, and at what speeds are you braking from. You can't expect a 'street' pad to handle 100 MPH+ stops going balls out every lap.

The guy above is right, if you're boiling the fluid, you need to step up the the STR660 fluid.

Hawk's race pads are corrosive, and QC issues are common. Hawks are cheap, but complaints are common. We generally do not recommend them unless you have a race car where keeping the wheels presentable isn't an issue.

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Hawk's race pads are corrosive, and QC issues are common. Hawks are cheap, but complaints are common. We generally do not recommend them unless you have a race car where keeping the wheels presentable isn't an issue.

Couldn't agree more. This was after just 2 days of daily driving and a bit of rain:



Pads were Hawk DTC-60. Stuck with them for now, but I won't be getting them again, even though I will probably be able to get them for free with their NASA TT contingency.

[SeanRTR]

All my track cars have black wheels...I've ran in the rain with DTC-60's and have not seen my wheels ever look like those ones above. I think the DTC-60's work great, I've never had any issues with QC. I'm interested in lowering lap times though, not winning car shows. Every brake pad is going to have a compromise, what pads are you guys going to switch to that can handle the heat, give consistent laps without any noise/dust?

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

All my track cars have black wheels...I've ran in the rain with DTC-60's and have not seen my wheels ever look like those ones above. I think the DTC-60's work great, I've never had any issues with QC. I'm interested in lowering lap times though, not winning car shows. Every brake pad is going to have a compromise, what pads are you guys going to switch to that can handle the heat, give consistent laps without any noise/dust?

If you could see the rest of my car, you'd know I'm not trying to win any car shows I just don't want it to look like my wheels will disintegrate at a moments notice.

I also know someone else who has been running the DTC-60's on their car for a couple years now (E36 M3) and hasn't had these problems, so I don't know if mine are just a bad or not, but you can find several other horror stories about corrosive dust from Hawk pads by googling around, so its not an isolated incident.

I'm probably going to go back to Ferodo DS-UNOs for track use. They will squeal on the street and also make a fair amount of dust. The difference is the dust doesn't turn to rust the instant it comes into contact with water and has always been a piece of cake to remove. Performance has been excellent as well.

I'd like to run the Hawk pads, I really would, since their NASA TT contingency program is pretty generous, but if they are going to do this to my wheels (and probably other areas of my car eventually) its just not worth it.