Autocrossing 2016 vs. 2017?

[JBPII]

Good Afternoon,

I am looking at buying a FRS or BRZ, as a second car, to do some autocrossing and some track time.

Do the 2017's have any updates that are advantageous or should I also consider 2016's?

Do the BRZ or FRS have any specific advantages over each other? I seem to recall when they first came out that Toyota and Subaru were using their own ECU's and programming but I have not heard much about it since.

I won't be doing too many mods and I am basically looking for some cheap fun with relatively cheap tires that will still periodically haul two kids in booster seats (yes they fit). I was originally looking at STI's but I have read too many reviews about how much fun this platform is. My other vehicle is a 4Runner so practicality is not a concern.

Thank you for your help.

John

[Celica00]

If you're looking for cheap fun and aren't opposed to the 2016 MY, then get an older used 2013 for half the price as they are virtually the same. The refresh to 2017 is negligible especially considering the new vs used cost. Used also gives you more room to budget mods if that's your goal

[Dake]

Well, if you don't mind spending money then the top of the line Performance-package BRZ will offer a bit more with suspension and brake upgrades over the older models.

[Fishbed77]

If you're looking for cheap fun and aren't opposed to the 2016 MY, then get an older used 2013 for half the price as they are virtually the same. The refresh to 2017 is negligible especially considering the new vs used cost. Used also gives you more room to budget mods if that's your goal

This.^

Get a manual transmission car from any year from 2013-2016 (either FR-S or BRZ), and you'll be good to go. There are plenty of great low-mileage examples out there. No details announced so far for the 2017 model indicate that there will be any noticeable difference in performance versus the current cars. 5HP and a mild gearing change aren't going to make a dime's worth of difference in autocross or real-world driving.

[strat61caster]

2017 Manual Transmission cars get a slight horsepower improvement to 205hp over <'16 which have a peak 200hp. No reliable dyno charts have been produced yet so no idea what the character of that will be, likely unnoticeable to all but the most sensitive of butts, likely entirely replicated by an aftermarket tune and high flow air filter. There will also be a gearing change but that's a tradeoff not a straight performance advantage dependent on the course layout, ultimately not worth more than a tenth of a second or two which most drivers can easily lose on a mistake mistake or two during the run.

The BRZ is getting an option package with 'Brembo brakes' and slightly wider 7.5" wheels which should 'feel' better when paired with slightly bigger 225 tires (it will come with 215 tires. If you're competitive who knows what all this will do for the classing, better to wait a year.

A base FR-S will come in a few pounds lighter than a BRZ due to a lack of options (climate control, leather interior, heated seats, etc.) official figures are on the order of ~20 lbs different iirc.

IMO none of those are worth paying any more for, the money would be better spent in the aftermarket if you're serious about performance. I'd get the cheapest one that fulfills your needs so you can spend more money on event fees. If you're casual imo get seat time now, don't wait, there's a plethora of ways to update the current car to match what we know of the upcoming model. All the important stuff is remaining the same. If you can undercut MSRP I'd bet you'll easily come out ahead $/performance wise by buying a '16 on discount vs waiting for a '17+options.

Good luck.



Edit: Just re-read and caught the casual, not too many mawds aspect of the OP.

Absolutely buy a '16 or earlier, sounds like at the most you'll target building a CS car and end up with putting good tires on it in OE-ish size, TRD lowering springs and Koni/Bilstein struts, changing brake pads/fluid, along with a sway bar or two. Find the color you want, decide if you like the alacantara and HID's or cloth and halogens and drive home happy.

[cjd]

What class will you run? If CS, the FR-S gets the benefit of the TRD springs/sways (or get the model that already has them) for a small bit of help (you can still add an aftermarket swaybar with the TRD, I think most do front) - you'd need camber bolts and a legal shock/strut setup for full prep.

If you're going STX it matters little on platform - and you gain some/lose some with the '17... I was on the limiter twice (and it's not stock) yesterday, once for quite a while, had me weighing 3rd gear and the unsettling that might cause... then the storms popped up and cut our day short. The shorter rear end will help on acceleration, but make spots like this worse... I'd guess the gearing would be a net gain but... time will tell.

[renfield90]

There are some deep, deep discounts available on new '16 FRS models since Scion is getting discontinued. Just be aware that having a "discontinued" brand (even if the model is still alive) may hurt resale value down the line.

[JBPII]

Thanks for the tips, I will probably go with with a 2016 or older. Is the paint better on the FRS than the Subaru or do they both get the same Eco-friendly stuff that ages poorly?

[BWilky]

Originally Posted by JBPII

Thanks for the tips, I will probably go with with a 2016 or older. Is the paint better on the FRS than the Subaru or do they both get the same Eco-friendly stuff that ages poorly?

Paint quality would be the same as built side by side.
FRS only color is the Hot Lava and Oceanic/Ultra Marine
BRZ only color is World Rally Blue (2013 had the Dark Blue as well, forgot the offical name of it)

[BillWeiss]

Originally Posted by cjd

What class will you run? If CS, the FR-S gets the benefit of the TRD springs/sways (or get the model that already has them) for a small bit of help (you can still add an aftermarket swaybar with the TRD, I think most do front) - you'd need camber bolts and a legal shock/strut setup for full prep.

If you're going STX it matters little on platform - and you gain some/lose some with the '17... I was on the limiter twice (and it's not stock) yesterday, once for quite a while, had me weighing 3rd gear and the unsettling that might cause... then the storms popped up and cut our day short. The shorter rear end will help on acceleration, but make spots like this worse... I'd guess the gearing would be a net gain but... time will tell.

Possibly dumb question: can you do the TRD springs in CS? That feels like a dealer modification, not factory. I'm probably missing something, though

(This is me both eyeballing that 2017 BRZ and thinking about CS prep for mine)

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by BillWeiss

Possibly dumb question: can you do the TRD springs in CS? That feels like a dealer modification, not factory. I'm probably missing something, though

(This is me both eyeballing that 2017 BRZ and thinking about CS prep for mine)

You can. But not on a BRZ. Only the FR-S.

*Not known for absolute certain if that *cough*cough* port thing is still on-going with the model update or not. Should be, I just can't confirm.

But, the BRZ is getting some wheel options that I don't think are coming for the FR-S/GT86. No idea if that extra 1/2" of wheel width produces a truly meaningful difference or not yet.

I do know that after last weekend's local, I do NOT want a shorter 2nd gear.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by BillWeiss

Possibly dumb question: can you do the TRD springs in CS? That feels like a dealer modification, not factory. I'm probably missing something, though

(This is me both eyeballing that 2017 BRZ and thinking about CS prep for mine)

One of the trim options included the TRD parts... or some such. Check the CS thread for more.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

*Not known for absolute certain if that *cough*cough* port thing is still on-going with the model update or not. Should be, I just can't confirm.

My understanding is yes. I don't think Isley would've posted that picture...

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by renfield90

My understanding is yes. I don't think Isley would've posted that picture...

Good point. Still, internet info and all that. To quote the my salesman, who, at the time was our region solo chair, upon my inquiring:

Huh? You can whatnow?