ACE Header Independent Testing Results and Review - 199.6WHP on CA 91 Octane

[Rabbit of Caerbonnog]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

*snip*

If you're doing a cost benefit analysis, how's this:

Tomei header + FF kit + FF tune
vs
Ace header + 91 tune

The Ace still makes more power, if the front pipe is in place....

Was there a power loss or insufficient increase in power/torque for the price point of an aftermarket front pipe?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Rabbit of Caerbonnog

Was there a power loss or insufficient increase in power/torque for the price point of an aftermarket front pipe?

If you add a front pipe to both setups, the Ace still makes more power. It was most to just illustrate the different setups that are possible with a similar budget, utilizing a less expensive header and flex fuel. Both of the illustrated examples cost about $2000 (750 + 600 + 750, vs 1530 + 450)

[CSG Mike]

Please let me know if I'm not making sense; this isn't the normal type of discussion I usually post online. It's usually more geared toward engineers.

[MaximeT]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Please let me know if I'm not making sense; this isn't the normal type of discussion I usually post online. It's usually more geared toward engineers.

It's perfectly clear and easily understandable. It's nice to have you sharing important informations like this. That's the kind of posts I hope (and fail) to find most of the time.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That "close to MBT" balance gets pusedh back toward the direction of retarded timing advance when you add boost into the mix. Being able to go beyond MBT gives you a significant amount of overhead as in-cylinder IAT climbs with boost.

If you're doing a cost benefit analysis, how's this:

Tomei header + FF kit + FF tune
vs
Ace header + 91 tune

The Ace still makes more power, if the front pipe is in place....

The dyno's Ace posted showed some loss in the mid range when use their front pipe with the 4-2-1 compared to just the 4-2-1 and the OEM front pipe. Have your tests shown a similar loss?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Calum

The dyno's Ace posted showed some loss in the mid range when use their front pipe with the 4-2-1 compared to just the 4-2-1 and the OEM front pipe. Have your tests shown a similar loss?

The disclaimer is they're using an off the shelf Stage 2 tune from Delicious Tuning meant for a different header. In other words, their dynos showed what would happen with the ACE header when using a tune meant for a different header.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by CSG David

The disclaimer is they're using an off the shelf Stage 2 tune from Delicious Tuning meant for a different header. In other words, their dynos showed what would happen with the ACE header when using a tune meant for a different header.

Thanks David. I was aware of them using a tune for a different header. Just for clarity, can you confirm that the loss doesn't exist with a proper tune?

Edit, I just reread the first post. Nevermind.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Calum

Thanks David. I was aware of them using a tune for a different header. Just for clarity, can you confirm that the loss doesn't exist with a proper tune?

Edit, I just reread the first post. Nevermind.

We actually thought we were going to get some dip in power. To our surprise, the power is absolutely linear with no dips. The front pipe added a substantial amount of power in the NA configuration which was actually more of a surprise to us since generally front pipes yield a mild gain. Response is substantial and power is very different from the other systems we've played with.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by CSG David

We actually thought we were going to get some dip in power. To our surprise, the power is absolutely linear with no dips. The front pipe added a substantial amount of power in the NA configuration which was actually more of a surprise to us since generally front pipes yield a mild gain. Response is substantial and power is very different from the other systems we've played with.

That's awesome. Thanks. Any chance you have a dyno showing this, please?

Also, are you guys moving toward offering e tunes for this setup? Or do you have any specific tuners you would recommend?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Copy pasta from another thread.




E85's big advantage is that it allows for the majority of the inefficiencies of many headers to be masked. E85 is proven to add a solid 35whp to an otherwise stock car with tune, but on the Ace, it's worth 12-15whp at best, NA.

.

totally agree

with E85 we see virtually same gains from cheap headers like these (that look like they were designed on Friday afternoon over a few beers and welded by people who have never seen a welder before) or high end headers

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOYOTA-86...-/151383079811


the one thing we have here is good E85 (our petrol is crap worse than your 91)

Guaranteed E85 at 85% ethanol and 107 octane available at the pump.

[djliquidsteele]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Copy pasta from another thread.

E85 is proven to add a solid 35whp to an otherwise stock car with tune, but on the Ace, it's worth 12-15whp at best, NA.

So what I'm hearing is I can STILL make more power with E85.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Calum

That's awesome. Thanks. Any chance you have a dyno showing this, please?

Also, are you guys moving toward offering e tunes for this setup? Or do you have any specific tuners you would recommend?

See the second post in this thread

Note that the "dip" is a phantom dip, from additional tuning done to maximize the potential of the chambered front pipe. We can place the dip precisely within the 2500-4500 RPM window, by altering ramp time; in other words, it is an artifact, and not actually there.

[churchx]

Or in other words normal customers with normal front pipes with normal tunes for this header wishing linear delivery won't have dip in low rpm-s more common @ daily driving / cruising.
I still wonder how Ace managed to got all three checkboxes checked, top power, middle rpm power, dip elimination, when most of other had to choose between. Especially Nameless, whose EL also has long runner lengths, just shaped different way.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by churchx

Or in other words normal customers with normal front pipes with normal tunes for this header wishing linear delivery won't have dip in low rpm-s more common @ daily driving / cruising.
I still wonder how Ace managed to got all three checkboxes checked, top power, middle rpm power, dip elimination, when most of other had to choose between. Especially Nameless, whose EL also has long runner lengths, just shaped different way.

Well, considering their primary market is Porsche and oldschool VWs....