all motor any chance?

[nguyen_er]

Yeah I know what you mean. Probably just gonna go FI in this car and get some other car to run NA. Would be better off having a NA v8 than a NA 4 banger. Haha

[GT86_PRAGUE]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

The bang for the buck factor is terrible. Why do all that for so little return on your investment? Except for some sort of spec race series or just to prove some sort of point, it doesn't make sense when you can strap a turbo or supercharger on it and easily eclipse the power of a fully built NA engine costing twice as much.

There are people who dont want SC/turbo in their car and they appreciate NA rewing high. It is not all about power or power/price. Sometimes, you want something what is not reasonable but it is still the best option for you.

[kevman_101]

I'm one of the guys that loves NA and not so much FI. Just something about it. With turbos and all that being more efficient, and racing series going mostly to small turbo engines, I guess I'm in a dying segment. Nothing to me sounds better then an NA engine just wailling, even if it gets passed by a turboed car .

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by GT86_PRAGUE

There are people who dont want SC/turbo in their car and they appreciate NA rewing high. It is not all about power or power/price. Sometimes, you want something what is not reasonable but it is still the best option for you.

You are talking to one. I want an S2000 and there would be no boost devices brought anywhere near it.

My favorite car of the 40 or so that I have owned was a CA18DE Silvia stripped to a shell inside that would melt your sneakers and make you deaf. I built a new induction system to bring in cold air through a hacked corner light, turbo injectors trimmed by an SAFC, a heavily wrapped HKS 4-2-1 header and a Toda lightweight flywheel feeding through a shortstroke shifted transmission to a turbo car viscous LSD and big wheels and tires. It wound up like a sport bike, always caught people by surprise and beat a few cars it wasn't supposed to.

That being said, I never opened that engine. I didn't cross that barrier into sinking serious money into a NFG NA build. When doing that one must be brutally honest about their funds, their skills or the skills of those they rely on for the work and their expectations. If you are ok with spending much, much more for less result, but getting that NA simplicity and scream, go for it! I'd be the first to say how awesome it looks sounds and feels.

[Poodles]

I've been through this conversation a ton with old school and new school guys alike. Even the old school guys are getting it now.

Turbos = displacement on demand and can allow a car to be "full retard" while being completely normal to drive.

A full NA build requires race gas all the time, doesn't want to idle, and has a terrible power band. It's also many times more $/hp than going FI.

[phobos512]

Originally Posted by Poodles

I've been through this conversation a ton with old school and new school guys alike. Even the old school guys are getting it now.

Turbos = displacement on demand and can allow a car to be "full retard" while being completely normal to drive.

A full NA build requires race gas all the time, doesn't want to idle, and has a terrible power band. It's also many times more $/hp than going FI.

No one's going to disagree. For me the problem with FI on this platform is you seriously throw off the balance. You're putting 50 or 100 lbs way out on the front of a vehicle that's already nose heavy as soon as you've done any basic weight reduction.

But then again, I already did the supercharged V8 muscle car laying down 500 whp while weighing 3900 lbs...this car isn't for that. If I keep it long-term I suspect it'll end up looking a lot like Anthony's car. But I haven't kept a vehicle long-term in a long time.

[GT86_PRAGUE]

Originally Posted by Poodles

I've been through this conversation a ton with old school and new school guys alike. Even the old school guys are getting it now.

Turbos = displacement on demand and can allow a car to be "full retard" while being completely normal to drive.

A full NA build requires race gas all the time, doesn't want to idle, and has a terrible power band. It's also many times more $/hp than going FI.

If I add turbo to my stock engine, will I be able to rev to 9000rpm on daily basis?

[F1fletch]

Element Tuning - Call them.

[GT86_PRAGUE]

Originally Posted by F1fletch

Element Tuning - Call them.

I have interesting offer from MAPerformace for fully built engine which is cheaper than Cosworth stage 2 (I know that is really expensive), but I have to include ridiculous shipping costs to EU and local fees and taxes.
So until I am that commited or want to spend that much money on it, I will wait for Cosworth stage 3 (forged internals already showed on their FB) and hope that it will be more reasonable.
If I want it so desperatelly, I would send my car to UK, but I am quite happy with my car now and I have a long list of things to improve before upgrading engine internals, so I will wait for stage 3 kit (and price).

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Poodles

I've been through this conversation a ton with old school and new school guys alike. Even the old school guys are getting it now.

Turbos = displacement on demand and can allow a car to be "full retard" while being completely normal to drive.

A full NA build requires race gas all the time, doesn't want to idle, and has a terrible power band. It's also many times more $/hp than going FI.

You make it sound like having a car is a purely rational endeavor.

[Tgionet]

Originally Posted by GT86_PRAGUE

If I add turbo to my stock engine, will I be able to rev to 9000rpm on daily basis?

9000 rpm will require lighter pistons and rods, stronger valve springs, head work to keep making power, and significant oiling upgrades

[GT86_PRAGUE]

Originally Posted by Tgionet

9000 rpm will require lighter pistons and rods, stronger valve springs, head work to keep making power, and significant oiling upgrades

I was thinking more about that turbo doesnt help me to get to 9000rpm, it only helps me to get there quicker, but I need those internals anyway. So in that case you cant pull price/power argument because there is no substitute for forged internals.

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by GT86_PRAGUE

If I add turbo to my stock engine, will I be able to rev to 9000rpm on daily basis?

Oh, lord, not the revability crap.

If you are boosting you don't have to rev it. You are delivering the volume of air you need to make the power you want without having to increase the engine speed.

You only have to rev a motor as a necessity when you can't make power down in a reasonable RPM range. The higher you rev the more stress you place on the rotating assembly which hurts reliability. It's not a goal, it's a requirement.

Sure, it sound great, but please stop treating it like it's a good thing. MY CA18DET lived a while with a T04E on it and made power everywhere. My CA18DE made power, well, nowhere, and the only way to get anything done I had to keep it over 7K. When I tore down the turbo motor it looked fine, just a clean up bore and rings. When I tore down the NA motor the bearings were wiped badly from stretched rod bolts. Revs do damage.

[GT86_PRAGUE]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

Oh, lord, not the revability crap.

If you are boosting you don't have to rev it. You are delivering the volume of air you need to make the power you want without having to increase the engine speed.

You only have to rev a motor as a necessity when you can't make power down in a reasonable RPM range. The higher you rev the more stress you place on the rotating assembly which hurts reliability. It's not a goal, it's a requirement.

Sure, it sound great, but please stop treating it like it's a good thing. MY CA18DET lived a while with a T04E on it and made power everywhere. My CA18DE made power, well, nowhere, and the only way to get anything done I had to keep it over 7K. When I tore down the turbo motor it looked fine, just a clean up bore and rings. When I tore down the NA motor the bearings were wiped badly from stretched rod bolts. Revs do damage.

Please tell me more