2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Holes cause drag, drag causes poorer emissions. I'm not sure how the USA is but Euro 6 regs are getting stricter year on year. It is possible that by having the vents open would have a negative impact on where they can sell the car and having massively different specs for different markets doesn't make any sense for a low volume car. So it does make perfect sense that if a tiny proportion of the market will make those changes, allow them to do it without having negative knock-ons for the majority that don't.

That's very true but mostly for the front end of the vehicle. Even that can be mitigated to be an advantage. Audi and many other manufacturers (I've seen even hyundai do this) use a blade to funnel air from the front to the outer surface of the front wheel well, this lowers the usually immense drag from the turbulent front wheel well.
I said it before, and I'll say it again. The supra is a HALO sports car, for them not to have simple ducting for aero and brakes is stupid. What's worse is that they chose other means of ducting (I'm almost positive this already has brake ducts and what not), instead of using the existing design elements. Missed opportunity if anything.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

@ichitaka05 and @RayRay88, for what it's worth I think you're closer than you think.

Ichitaka05 I pretty much agree with you on things like brake ducts and other aero features. For day-to-day driving if they exist and functional, they can be a pain and cause more damage than problems they solve. What would be nice is if they had built-in ways of shutting them. I mean they do it with every air vent in the car, why not the ones on the outside? Then you have the option of opening/closing them based on need and retain the look.

RayRay88 I think you are saying if they aren't going to be functional why be there at all. I also agree with that, to an extent. Although occasionally its nice to have them just to provide some sense of style.

There are lots of things that don't necessarily add to the functionality of a car but are there for style reasons though. Tesla is a good example of that. Their flush door handles add mechanical complexity that isn't needed but are cool. The front of the Model 3 is awful to me. It could stand with some fake aero or something to improve the design.

I said it in an earlier post, but I'm all for front end fake vents/blanked openings for design aesthetics. Modern cooling systems and aero/drag limitations necessitate very controlled openings. This greatly limits design options so fake stuff here is ok to give the car character.

What I do take issue with is:

Fender vents. JUST MAKE THEM WORK! I would love to see the drag penalty associated with these if they were functional. I'm willing to bet it would be minimal vs the gains in reduced front end lift and/or increased engine cooling.

Side Blade/Vent. This is the stupidest design element i've ever seen. Same reason why I hate them on the mustangs. What are they trying to convey here? Is there an engine in the back that requires ducting for rad? No. Is it a mid engined car? No. Does it need massive cooling for the rear differentials or transaxle? No. Brake ducts? Would make the most sense, but still no.

So why? Lazy design for the sake of looking cool...

Again this is all pure opinion. But I hate this stream of design dominating the final outcome without input from engineering. Industrial design and engineering should go hand in hand, or at the very least work together towards a unified goal.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

So why? Lazy design for the sake of looking cool...

Pretty much nailed it right on the spot here.

For example the STI body kit for the BRZ, on their Japanese site even the ghetto Google Translate says that only the front lip, rear spoiler, and rear gurney flap options were wind tunnel tested, the side pieces were added later to the catalog just to finish the look of the car which I take it means purely cosmetic. At least they are honest about it.

Toyota is trying too hard to appeal to the younger buyers market with all of their stuff these days. The Akio Toyoda piece reminded me of Kaz Hirai's "Speeeeeeed Racer" at E3.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

No, I will not look nor give them single click from my mouse from fake auto new site. Jalop is so fake

You know most young people in your country get their news from watching The Daily Show @ 11pm. Just sayin'

[squall leonhart]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

No, I will not look nor give them single click from my mouse from fake auto new site. Jalop is so fake, they're more fake than fake vents on Supra I don't trust a single word they write.

I don't remember the name of what media group they are with, but I do know I stopped visiting one of their sister sites: kotaku. About ten years ago, I enjoyed kotaku for some Japanese/video game/manga/anime content. But over the years they steadily became worse and worse, click bait worthless content.

Finally (probably 2-3 years ago now) I got put over the edge by one of their writers and his agendas that made no sense and were full of illogical bias. Have tried to make sure never to give that site another click...so I understand where you're coming from. Sad.

Sorry, that was totally off topic.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by krayzie

You know most young people in your country get their news from watching The Daily Show @ 11pm. Just sayin'

Oh snap! That’s harsh, but funny as hell! lol

Originally Posted by squall leonhart

I don't remember the name of what media group they are with, but I do know I stopped visiting one of their sister sites: kotaku. About ten years ago, I enjoyed kotaku for some Japanese/video game/manga/anime content. But over the years they steadily became worse and worse, click bait worthless content.

Finally (probably 2-3 years ago now) I got put over the edge by one of their writers and his agendas that made no sense and were full of illogical bias. Have tried to make sure never to give that site another click...so I understand where you're coming from. Sad.

Sorry, that was totally off topic.

If you think Kotaku is bad, don’t get close to Anitay... 99.9% of article are written by teenager who thinks they know every anime ever made... even though they only seen handful of em in their life. Kinja in general just lost it.

Now I know why most of automotive media staffs hate Jalop.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Coaster

I hope/ think porsche is the one exception to poor design/reliability of german cars.

Having read through a couple of Porsche forums I'm not too sure about that but this could come down to people are more likely to post about faults than posting that they haven't had a problem.
Their M96 and M97 engines had a known intermediate shaft bearing problem.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

No, I will not look nor give them single click from my mouse from fake auto new site. Jalop is so fake, they're more fake than fake vents on Supra I don't trust a single word they write. I've seen them at the event, they ignore Tada-san, Toyoyama-san and other important staff who were involved in the development who were at the event. They LITERALLY walk pass them. I'll admit Toyoyama-san was more noticeable and crowded by Japanese media than Tada-san, but don't remember them try to talk to them. Even though most of them had translator next to them.

I'm not a Jalop reader, but in this case, you might want to make an exception. It plainly shows, with pictures, how stupid the fake vents are on this car.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Holes cause drag, drag causes poorer emissions. I'm not sure how the USA is but Euro 6 regs are getting stricter year on year. It is possible that by having the vents open would have a negative impact on where they can sell the car and having massively different specs for different markets doesn't make any sense for a low volume car. So it does make perfect sense that if a tiny proportion of the market will make those changes, allow them to do it without having negative knock-ons for the majority that don't.

That's a pretty generic statement. Vents, engineered correctly, can reduce drag by changing areas of the car to have different air pressure. Also blocked off vent can cause a high pressure zone and could increase drag. Not to mention the surface of those fake vents likely increasing skin friction drag.

None of us have seen a CFD analysis of this car so the effects of these vents, fake or open and used for something, isn't something we can have a real technical discussion about as it's related to drag.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Having read through a couple of Porsche forums I'm not too sure about that but this could come down to people are more likely to post about faults than posting that they haven't had a problem.
Their M96 and M97 engines had a known intermediate shaft bearing problem.

With Porsches, you just wait for the expensive items to have cheap fixes.. then buy that one

Basically every generation of the 911 has had some terrible flaw that destroys a 10k+ engine, but once the aftermarket deals with it you can prevent it with a $500 fix in advance.

In my experience (I've worked on a handful and rebuilt a 911 engine before) once you have that one or two major items dealt with the cars tend to be very reliable.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'm not a Jalop reader, but in this case, you might want to make an exception. It plainly shows, with pictures, how stupid the fake vents are on this car.

Again, not clicking it, but I've read TLDR other forum. In general, hood and door vents are very questionable. More looking at the door vents, after doing small DIY, it's doable to make air duct to go into rear wheels. Hood, only way I can think is aftermarket hood to make that vent functional for front wheel well. But hey, by the time you needing those functions, prob it's not functional car to drive daily.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Again, not clicking it, but I've read TLDR other forum. In general, hood and door vents are very questionable. More looking at the door vents, after doing small DIY, it's doable to make air duct to go into rear wheels. Hood, only way I can think is aftermarket hood to make that vent functional for front wheel well. But hey, by the time you needing those functions, prob it's not functional car to drive daily.

Door vents you'd have to cut into the door opening/frame, which is likely fairly structural. It's far harder to make that one functional. If they wanted a "could be made functional" vent there it should have gone on the quarter.

I run some form of extra cooling/ducting on almost every car I have. Granted most do see the track, but they are far from "not functional to daily drive". I've never seen any negatives.

Now I don't like in the great white north of the US.. but then I wouldn't be driving my performance cars in the winter anyways

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Door vents you'd have to cut into the door opening/frame, which is likely fairly structural. It's far harder to make that one functional. If they wanted a "could be made functional" vent there it should have gone on the quarter.

I run some form of extra cooling/ducting on almost every car I have. Granted most do see the track, but they are far from "not functional to daily drive". I've never seen any negatives.

Now I don't like in the great white north of the US.. but then I wouldn't be driving my performance cars in the winter anyways

No, not cutting door, but hole between door and extra panel... it's kinda hard to explain it.

If you do live in snowing w salt everywhere for 3~4 months, you question adding cooling or air duct... well at least I do. This is why, I can't upgrade my brakes. Aftermarket brakes can't handle salt and shitty winter here.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

No, not cutting door, but hole between door and extra panel... it's kinda hard to explain it.

If you do live in snowing w salt everywhere for 3~4 months, you question adding cooling or air duct... well at least I do. This is why, I can't upgrade my brakes. Aftermarket brakes can't handle salt and shitty winter here.

Yeah I'd just buy a 2000 Civic or something as a winter beater. Even when I lived in Ohio no one in the family drove their good cars in the winter.

But now I don't even have to think about snow.

[Atmo]

Not sure if this was posted but if you have the urge, here's your chance to own the very first production Supra. It'll be auctioned tomorrow, 01/19, at the Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale event around 18:30 MST.

Watch live online or on tv with MotorTrend in the US, Velocity in CA, turbo in the UK.

https://barrett-jackson.proxibid.com...p?lid=45762395



Note overheating brakes due to non-functional fake vents.



Any guesses on selling price (less fees, commissions and assuming no shill bids?). With a Mk IV TT going for $121k recently, this one should sell for multiples more and then go to a US (not German) museum.