Oil Consumption?

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by icemang17

I will check my oil level. I did 6 sessions on track at Thundehill a couple weeks ago, two at "flat out" pace and the other 4 in driving school (slower pace)....I just changed the oil right before, so it will be interesting to see the level.

It was 108F at Thunderhill....my water temp gauge never waivered...at all..it was perfect the whole time....it did make me wonder what the oil temps would be....but even 240f isn't bad...but pulling timing above 221F seems excessive for me since its running synthetic oil.....in my Porsche racer I have seen 300F in endurance racing for extended periods....yes the car was nearly overheating, but the oil analysis came back perfect...BUT that was Amsoil 15-50 racing oil...rated for 150C or 312F...

Yeah I touched 300*f oil temps on track at Sebring, yet the water temp gauge was dead center and didn't move, and looking at my water temps on the scan gauge, they were around 212*f or so. So oil temp went sky high, but water temp was normal.

[smbstyle]

Just an update, did a 1 day event, logged about 110 miles on track with 4 - 30 min sessions, noticed it was just barely 1/8 qt low from where I filled it, so at least it is consistent!

[skyfire]

Not to start a new thread, wanna update this.
After 250 miles of track days (in a month) and 1500 miles of daily drive, found out that car consumed like 3/4 qt of my Motul 0w30 (econrgy). Is it normal for agressive track ride in warm temperature (+10-15 C)?
P.S. Car odo 4600 miles, used on track at her maximum.

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

Some oil consumption especially under hard use is normal, the problem is when to draw the line at excessive.

My car consumed no oil on my first lapping day which happened with 7000km on the odometer and was around 170km of on track driving. I am at 9000km now about to change my oil for the second time and have had no oil consumption, so either I am driving it too easy or I am lucky.

[skyfire]

Originally Posted by BRZZZZZZZZZZ

Some oil consumption especially under hard use is normal, the problem is when to draw the line at excessive.

There is an old mechanics opinion, that working engine dont consume oil.
With factory oil on intake I cant check if PCV is oiled with motor one. Even so, 1 qt is a lot, I think. Especially, when it get into intake system.

[Dezoris]

Catch cans, oil cooler a must for track days like that. Run a catch can on PCV, if you are collecting a ton of oil in it you know its mostly blowby. Also you should send out a UOA and see if you have any wear materials in that oil that could point to consumption.

I would run an oil with a high Moly content,namely early in in engine life as it helps to continue curing metals. Not a big deal for purely street cars but track cars why not.

[skyfire]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Catch cans, oil cooler a must for track days like that. Run a catch can on PCV, if you are collecting a ton of oil in it you know its mostly blowby. Also you should send out a UOA and see if you have any wear materials in that oil that could point to consumption.

I would run an oil with a high Moly content,namely early in in engine life as it helps to continue curing metals. Not a big deal for purely street cars but track cars why not.

I dont think my local dealer approve installing of oil can. They told me that they remove warranty for wheel hubs for my installed front aftermarket brake pads

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

Yeah I touched 300*f oil temps on track at Sebring, yet the water temp gauge was dead center and didn't move, and looking at my water temps on the scan gauge, they were around 212*f or so. So oil temp went sky high, but water temp was normal.

Wow, I thought I was running hot at 260F (Supercharged with OEM cooler and KoyoRad)

Did you check your cam plate to see if there is any leak?
what kind of oil were you running? I wouldn't run anything besides 0w-40 or 5w-40 in Florida heat (I used to live in Tampa bay with turbo cars so I know how the heat soak might be an issue) .. FYI, I've checked my oil between sessions and couldn't notice any oil consumption (at least anything noticeable) .. I have a friend who tracks his BRZ at Sebring (his name is LD) I am not sure if he ran into the same issue but I can ask..

another question: are you sure you checked the oil level between 5-20 mins after you turn off the engine? anything before and after might be misleading..

[skyfire]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Did you check your cam plate to see if there is any leak?
what kind of oil were you running? I wouldn't run anything besides 0w-40 or 5w-40 in Florida heat (I used to live in Tampa bay with turbo cars so I know how the heat soak might be an issue) .. FYI, I've checked my oil between sessions and couldn't notice any oil consumption (at least anything noticeable) .. I have a friend who tracks his BRZ at Sebring (his name is LD) I am not sure if he ran into the same issue but I can ask..

another question: are you sure you checked the oil level between 5-20 mins after you turn off the engine? anything before and after might be misleading..

5w40 for a new engine? Isnt it too viscous? Iam using motul 0w30, no oil leaks on engine, no actually heats here. Checking 20-30 mins after engine stops.

Only 2 of us having this issue?

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by skyfire

5w40 for a new engine? Isnt it too viscous? Iam using motul 0w30, no oil leaks on engine, no actually heats here. Checking 20-30 mins after engine stops.

Only 2 of us having this issue?

not for Florida since it never really gets that cold in Florida
the difference between the 0w-30 and 0w-40 is the hot thickness or viscosity, it's more resistant to excessive heat which is the main reason I have been using on everything I owned/tracked for years.. I know a guy who used the same Shell Rotella T6 on everything he owned and tracked without a single problem ...cars, trucks, bikes even lawn movers

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Wow, I thought I was running hot at 260F (Supercharged with OEM cooler and KoyoRad)

Did you check your cam plate to see if there is any leak?
what kind of oil were you running? I wouldn't run anything besides 0w-40 or 5w-40 in Florida heat (I used to live in Tampa bay with turbo cars so I know how the heat soak might be an issue) .. FYI, I've checked my oil between sessions and couldn't notice any oil consumption (at least anything noticeable) .. I have a friend who tracks his BRZ at Sebring (his name is LD) I am not sure if he ran into the same issue but I can ask..

another question: are you sure you checked the oil level between 5-20 mins after you turn off the engine? anything before and after might be misleading..

Yep, no leaks from the cam plate. I tried GC 0w30, Toyota SN 0w20, and am sticking with Pennzoil Ultra 5w20 after my last UOA with it; it is holding up great for track use. I am checking the oil levels when I get back home in the garage, and the same amount of time between shut-off and checking the level both before the event and after the event, and notice a slight drop in the oil level. I've noticed as mileage goes up (I'm at 7k now), the consumption seems to have gone down...

Haha yeah I'm friends with LD.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

Yep, no leaks from the cam plate. I tried GC 0w30, Toyota SN 0w20, and am sticking with Pennzoil Ultra 5w20 after my last UOA with it; it is holding up great for track use. I am checking the oil levels when I get back home in the garage, and the same amount of time between shut-off and checking the level both before the event and after the event, and notice a slight drop in the oil level. I've noticed as mileage goes up (I'm at 7k now), the consumption seems to have gone down...

Haha yeah I'm friends with LD.

Really? Small world I've known him since he had his old Wrx, and I've used to own an 07Sti

I wonder why you don't want to run something thicker/higher flash point than 0w-20 especially in FL heat and Sebring? Since you mentioned that you saw oil temps around 300F

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

It could be blowby going back into your PCV line if it is hard track time. This is also assuming you dont have a leak.

Make sure you are checking oil at same temps. After you do oil swap, check at certain temp. At track check oil at same temps.



As a general rule most cars operate best when oil temp is 230F or less on the track. Perrin did testing to show the ECU cuts timing when oil gets past 221F.

The issue is two fold, once your engine oil breaks that threshold, it will not stop climbing. No amount of load reduction will drop those temps until you shut down the engine.

Second issue is coolant, as the stock radiator is small it heat soaks fast. As your oil temp climbs your coolant temps will start to climb as well. Once they starting hitting the 220 range the cooling system is maxed out and your oil temps will continue to climb.

Thats stock threshold from my testing. What I can't tell you is how hot is too hot.
I would say if your coolant is cycling from 212-220F and your oil temps have exceeded 240F its time to back off and install at the very least an oil cooler.

It's not so much blow by but oil vapor getting recirculated into the intake mani via the pcv. I've caught quite a bit of oil in my oil catch can (inline with pcv), but no scent of fuel that I could detect.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Really? Small world I've known him since he had his old Wrx, and I've used to own an 07Sti

I wonder why you don't want to run something thicker/higher flash point than 0w-20 especially in FL heat and Sebring? Since you mentioned that you saw oil temps around 300F

I noticed the thicker oil will also increase temps, so I am trying to find a happy median. Probably going to go with Motul 300V next.