FR-S/BRZ vs 2013 Ford Focus ST II

[boead]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

I can answer that for you right now.

Better drivers car: The twins
More practical vehicle: ST II
Better for long trips: ST II

Maybe its just me but the Ford is sort of hard to look at, not quite ugly but not easy on the eyes. That's a deal breaker for me.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

The differences are a little more than a "few inches" - Heights below:

BRZ: 1285 mm
WRX: 1475 mm
Focus ST: 1466 mm

So that's 7+ inches higher for both. Same as my father's Corolla XRS, and to me those 7 inches transform the driving experience from "sports" to "sedan commute". My Tiburon is no true sports car but at a height matching the BRZ it gives it a much more sportscar-like feel. Of course YMMV.

Thats overall vehicle height... Not the height of the seating position..

[boead]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Stop with the novels. I doubt anyone is reading all of that anymore.

I've done 12 hour drives solo in my S2000 and then stayed out drinking for 5 hours after arriving at my destination. I feel like some people have become too coddled. It's not like you're driving a gokart, sitting on the floor boards with no windshield.

I drive up to the Catskills every other weekend for years now. About 500 miles roundtrip. The FRS is comfortable. A little stiff at times, especially close to Manhattan with road conditions being what they are. NY Turnpikes are smooth and a pleasure to drive on. Up in the mountains the rough roads and gravel have been fine too.
My Pathfinder isn't very comfortable to sit in for long periods.
My RSX is comfortable but not any more so than the FRS.
Had MB's prior, E-class is comfy and easy on the ass but not particularly fun.
Si far these FRS seats are good. Im 5-8/165, if I was 6-1/210 maybe not.

When im driving, I like to look around me and think; this is nice and comfortable. I like to know what im driving looks good too.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by boead

Maybe its just me but the Ford is sort of hard to look at, not quite ugly but not easy on the eyes. That's a deal breaker for me.

I like the looks of it but I know what you mean. The interior quality, fit and finish is nice but it is a bit cluttered.

My wife was looking at a BRZ and we almost got one, but she wanted one car to do everything. Daily commute, haul stuff, roof for friends, long trips, fun to drive and aftermarket support to add a bit of flare. While the Brz is a good car, it doesn't do all of those things as well as or better than the focus did when we drove both around and just like the reason I got the wrx over the frs.. Felt like I got a lot more money for the car. At the same time, the focus doesn't do everything as well/better than the brz.

A lot of the comparisons here are with cars of completely different classes and price points. Depending on what you want out of a car, one will be more appealing than the other. That being said, it gets pretty tiring of seeing some of these comparisons and seeing various people say over and over "the twins do that better" as if it's greatest car in the world ever to be built

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by boead

Maybe its just me but the Ford is sort of hard to look at, not quite ugly but not easy on the eyes. That's a deal breaker for me.

I don't think it looks bad but I definitely think it would look better as a two door.

[boead]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

A lot of the comparisons here are with cars of completely different classes and price points. Depending on what you want out of a car, one will be more appealing than the other. That being said, it gets pretty tiring of seeing some of these comparisons and seeing various people say over and over "the twins do that better" as if it's greatest car in the world ever to be built

That's the thing, there isn't much too compare it to as apples-apples. A few but not many within 50% +/- its price. I totally agree and find it annoying. The cars you choose are in a different category, right?

I really never liked driving sedans. Ive had a few and they fit my needs. Sporty sedans are a compromise but are not like sport coupes.

Two cars I know well. Both Mercedes, both the same weight, the same engine/HP, transmissions, RWD, similar suspension and they were both black :-)
One a compact sedan, the other a coupe. Both about the same price. Similar in many ways but not comparable! E-Class vs CLK circa late 90's.
Two totally different experiences!

[boead]

Id be more interested on one of these or similar than a Ford Focus
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/scirocco/home

looks fun!'
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFyyT5rCY_k"]VW Scirocco R PURE! Sound - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrq0-DbKcro"]VW Scirocco R ( over 330 cv ) - YouTube[/ame]


I had one of these, Scirocco 1983 ST
and one of these Hondas too LOL!!

[thill]

I had previously checked out a Focus ST but it was a rushed visit. I had some time today and stopped by the local Ford dealership to get a little more seat time in a Focus ST. My thoughts were similar to my first test drive:
Highs:
- Very nice and peppy engine. Ford did a great job with the powerband in this car. Power is very linear and passing in this car is a breeze no matter what speed you are going. Compared to the Mazda Speed3 (where the power hits you like a ton of bricks) the power is just very linear. The engine never sounds like it is straining either.
- The Recaro seats in test drive model (Focus ST with ST3 option package) are amazing to me. I like them better than the seats in the FR-S and BRZ which is really saying something since I love the FT86 seats as well. The Recaro's are better. That said I am an averaged sized guy and if you are a bigger guy/girl the bolstering in the Recaro seats could be a dealbreaker for you.
- I heard people complain about rear seat legroom in the Focus ST, but I set the drivers seat for me (I am 5'11") and I had plenty of room when I moved to the back drivers side seat. I also fit three children's booster seats in the back row. It was tight, but they fit and they make narrow boosters that would fit even better.
- Very nice cargo space when you fold the rear seats down, this car is much more practical than the FT86.
- Lots of options for the money. My test car had the ST3 option pack with a power moonroof. This package includes leather seats, MyTouch, Sony upgraded sound system with a subwoofer, Xenon headlights, heated front Recaro seats, push button start (all models have this standard), lots of steering wheel controls, etc. MSRP was over $30K with all the options, and the dealer was offering it for $25300 after all incentives.
- Brakes were very strong. Definitely more sensitive than the brakes in my BRZ but I would not say they are better (more on this later).
- Handling in this car is very sharp. Very tight and controlled and it feels more European than American, and I personally find this to be a good thing. More on this in the lows, as it is also a mixed bag for me.

Lows:
- I have read reviews and people have praised the manual in this car, but I disagree. The throws are much longer than I would like and I found the whole experience to be rather vague feeling. It was not horrible, but definitely a step down vs the FT86 manual.
- Torque steer. It has it in spades. Now I personally don't mind torque steer and I can live with it in this car, but it is very much there and could be a problem for a novice driver driving my car who does not know how to manage torque steer (I am thinking about my wife)
- Above I mentioned that the steering is handling is very sharp and precise. On the flip side, it is also very artificial feeling to me with little to no feedback about what the wheels are doing. It feels more like I am steering a car in a video game vs real life if that makes any sense. It was a real mixed bag for me, because I would say the car handles very well, it just felt very artificial to me. For a FWD car though the Focus ST is a very nice handling car and fun to drive.
- While the interior car had a ton of features, it also just felt very busy to me compared to my BRZ Limited. There is just a lot going on with the MyTouch interface, and I just am not a fan of the whole experience. I did notice the interface has improved since the last time I drove a Ford, but as bad as the touchscreen is in the BRZ, I find the MyTouch to be even more busy and annoying.
- I also felt the interior plastics in the car to be a little lacking vs the BRZ. Controls were not as intuitive to me and some of the plastics felt cheaper. The Focus ST is not a bad car by any means in terms of overall fit and finish, but it could be better when the MSRP is $30K. One thing I did not like was to lock/unlock all the doors the switch is on the dash next to the hazards.. Ugggh.. Took me like 5 minutes to find it, why not on the door next to the window buttons and handle???
- I feel like the Focus ST just sits too high for me. I just did not like the driving position and I realize it is because I am used to the BRZ, but it really felt like I was sitting up high and not really settled into the car. While the seats were awesome, I wish the car was lower to the ground and had more feedback through the steering wheel and brakes. When I said the brakes were strong in this car, I meant it, but they were also very vague for me. While they are sensitive, they also don't have the feedback you get from the FT86 brakes when you are applying pressure on the pedal.

I really don't know how I feel about the Focus ST. The engine is strong, and I do like the front end styling, but really am not a fan of the taillights. It is a much more practical car than the BRZ, and for that reason alone I would consider one but at this point I would tell people to wait for the upcoming WRX (even though there is no hatchback), GTI MKVII, and wait and see if Mazda releases a new Speed3 option. I am definitely going to need a more practical car in the future, I am just not sold on the Focus ST to be that car.

A pic from the adventure:

[EAGLE5]

I am happy I waited for the FR-S. Feel like I dodged a bullet by skipping the Focus ST. If I were to get a hot hatch, GTI and WRX are the easy choices. I think my next car will most likely be a sedan. A used E90 or something similar. Really, the Focus ST's strength is as a bargain performance car. I stopped shopping for cars on bargain status a long time ago. I want a fast, fun, RWD or AWD car that I won't feel bad about beating on. I find the RWD experience so much more pleasurable.

[2013GTRNate]

Originally Posted by Wes B.

Thanks for the quick response. A few remaining questions: how much better of a driver's car is the FR-S? And, how can one modify/tune the ST II to make it just as good of a driver's car?

No matter what you do it will never be a better drivers car than the twins. Why because it is cursed with FWD.

As far as a road trip car I have taken my BRZ on a 200+ mile road trip and I had zero comfort relates complaints it was just as amazing as driving my GT-R.

-Nate

[blkmkiii]

focus is kinda hot

[thill]

One more thing. The Focus ST turning radius was horrible for a compact car. I tried to do a u-turn and something that would have been a breeze in my BRX ended up taking alot longer with more drama. I was not ready for how bad it was..

For reference my 2013 Honda Odyssey minivan has a turning radius of 36.7 ft.
The 2014 Focus ST has a turning radius of 39.4 ft!!

Crazy, and this would drive me nuts just trying to pull into a parking spot...

[Hotrod-Realtor]

The ST is a gorgeous car, especially with the Recarro seats.

[iccce34]

My wife and I recently got back from an overseas tour. We bought 2 new cars upon our return and here's the reason for the title of my post. She let me handle both purchases so long as both cars had back seats and one was a four door. We got a 2013 Focus ST3 and a 2013 Scion FR-S. I love both cars dearly. I personally prefer rear wheel drive and my first car was a 1985 Nissan 300ZX N/A 2 seater with a manual transmission. I love the FR-S for the same reasons everyone else does. The Focus St is an absolute blast also. I am modding the FR-S and probably holding off on the Focus ST for a while.