follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
86SPEED
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 > Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum

Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum The place to start for the Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 | GT86


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-13-2014, 12:23 AM   #85
extrashaky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: 2014 BRZ Limited
Location: USA
Posts: 3,402
Thanks: 838
Thanked 4,615 Times in 1,851 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazbo View Post
If you guys have all this extra cash to burn, why are you not just buying a Porsche Cayman and calling it a day?
Because built not bought.

If you buy a Porsche Cayman, you buy what some German engineers and marketing people decided you needed in a sports car.

If you buy a BRZ or an FR-S, you buy a base car with a baseline set of capabilities that is a fun drive right off the lot. Then you add to it (or not) to make it exactly like you want it. The reality of this model is that, if you really want to, you get a big say in designing your own car. Or you can be happy with what Toyobaru gave you.

Either way, the difference is that you have a choice, and what you end up with is really yours.
extrashaky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 12:32 AM   #86
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,848
Thanks: 516
Thanked 2,917 Times in 1,083 Posts
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
That is beyond harcore, you have to have a serious boner for junk cars and Subaru to go through all of that. But hey thats passion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZionsWrath View Post
Exactly, and that's why OP feels they designed it to a pricepoint and stopped. They did. Look at Porsche, they have a car for any amount of $ you want to spend. Spend more $ get a little more HP a little more performance.
Thats dead on. And why I started the project. I think Toyota was out of the game much like how Honda is now. Someone high up got sick of hearing and seeing the brand turning into a massive snooze fest and green lighted some fun projects to maybe re-vitalize the brand etc.

Only I don't really feel they let their designers and engineers off the leash. There are so many compromises here, it's hard to take the platform all that seriously. Mazda takes the MX5 seriously as a sports car. (Support, Racing, Parts supply) Toyota just uses the car for marketing stunts mostly and the fact its mostly controlled by Subaru which had almost zero interest in RWD makes it worse. For Subaru it accounts for less that 1% of their sales, just more damning for those hoping for more models.

This generation 86 is purely for aftermarket as it stands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
I think that this thread highlights that there is no such thing as "no compromise". Each and every decision comes along with a compromise of some type. Cost, reliability, drivability, maintenance, etc. I don't like the looks of the stock FR-S wheels, but it is tough to find a wheel and tire combo that will retain the super enjoyable stock drive. Too wide of a tire w/ a stickier compound? Some of that toss ability goes out the window. Bigger, prettier 18" wheels? Unless you spend a pretty penny, you're likely increasing rotational inertia. Even then, most tires out there seem to weigh a good bit more than the stockers even if you do keep the same width and rolling diameter. Swaybars might make it corner flatter, but depending what rubber you have and the road conditions, it might be more likely to step out without much warning (I learned this lesson the hard way in my 2.5RS... put a bigger RSB on it and found myself facing the same direction I'd come from on a tight, gravel covered, downhill hairpin). I changed the tires on my 4Runner and absolutely hated how the truck drove afterward... even though they were the same size and highly rated on Tirerack. To me, the biggest decision is finding a car that is designed to do what you want out of a car with the force of the OEM's engineering team behind it. Picking the right car in the first place is 90% of the battle. From then on, one must choose carefully and remember that every decision is a compromise in some way or another. You just have to understand what that compromise is and if that compromise is something you are willing to live with.
Adjusting your expectations is half of the issue in what you stated, but I agree for the most part anything you touch mechanically usually has some compromise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tromatic View Post
I understand what you meant, but a whole lot of people seem to misunderstand what Mr. Tada meant. I really do think the FR-S/BRZ won't last one generation before they fuck it up because that's what people want them to do so it's "better".

The "lol" makes me think your are serious. Since I do think the FR-S/BRZ will indeed be a classic some day, which one do you think will be more valuable years from now? The rusting, mismatched body panel leaky fartcan riced-out abused POS or the well-cared for stock example?
I dont see this car being anything more than what we saw from the FWD era of Civic Sis and Integra GSRs, RSX etc. Pushing it would be to compare it to an RX8, but the demand is not all that high there either.

It's not low volume enough to put it into some rare catagory. The only thing unique about it is the chassis. But in terms of build quality and components used here it compares more to the Imprezza and Corolla if anything.

Used market is flooded right now, and prices are low. Maybe in 10 years there will be demand for old analog"ish" cars but who knows.
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 01:11 AM   #87
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,848
Thanks: 516
Thanked 2,917 Times in 1,083 Posts
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimon7777 View Post
Fixed.

This thread is awesome. Definitely my favorite. So much hilarity.

Dez, put it back to stock or sell it. As for the C7, it's one of the few cars that looks dramatically better in pictures. I saw one in person and gagged. Get a C5 Z06 and call it a day.
Eventually it will get parted out but not until I actually get to have some fun with it or it just has some type of catastrophic failure.

In truth I maintain it is really one of the better cars I have owned at any price point. The C5 or C6 Z06 is on a list of future owns and C7.
Not even going to think about that right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tromatic View Post
Not jealous. Or is that "jelly"? But for someone who can buy a 25K car and then toss in another 10 or more K for shits and giggles really has no leg to stand on when it comes to bitching.

OP needs some real-life problems money can't fix.
This is way off topic, plenty of "real" life problems. But this post aint about that, its about modifying cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extrashaky View Post
Because built not bought.

If you buy a Porsche Cayman, you buy what some German engineers and marketing people decided you needed in a sports car.

If you buy a BRZ or an FR-S, you buy a base car with a baseline set of capabilities that is a fun drive right off the lot. Then you add to it (or not) to make it exactly like you want it. The reality of this model is that, if you really want to, you get a big say in designing your own car. Or you can be happy with what Toyobaru gave you.

Either way, the difference is that you have a choice, and what you end up with is really yours.
Something to be said for buying a car like a 911 or a Lotus that was purpose built and massaged by experienced/life long performance based engineers. Not some guy who designed a SUV, Family Sedan and then a sports car on the side.

When we get into mass produced sporty production cars from big brands, the engineers working on a car usually as in the case of the 86 were working on economy cars previously. I think this car was a low risk proving ground for Toyota.

Tada San for example, was given free range to do whatever and he came up with something fun and basic and here we are.

But Tada San is no Andreas Preuninger, and that's why someone would buy a 911 etc for that level of engineering.
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 01:18 AM   #88
Tromatic
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: FR-S
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,232
Thanks: 61
Thanked 1,723 Times in 786 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Still whining. Carry on.
Tromatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 01:29 AM   #89
spdfreak
Senior Member
 
spdfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: GBS BRZ Limited
Location: Chicago
Posts: 191
Thanks: 296
Thanked 142 Times in 76 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
Something to be said for buying a car like a 911 or a Lotus that was purpose built and massaged by experienced/life long performance based engineers. Not some guy who designed a SUV, Family Sedan and then a sports car on the side.

When we get into mass produced sporty production cars from big brands, the engineers working on a car usually as in the case of the 86 were working on economy cars previously. I think this car was a low risk proving ground for Toyota.

Tada San for example, was given free range to do whatever and he came up with something fun and basic and here we are.

But Tada San is no Andreas Preuninger, and that's why someone would buy a 911 etc for that level of engineering.
I agree with this but it's not entirely about the competence of the engineers. It's got a lot to do with the budget they're working with, as well.

Btw... that story you told in the OP is a lot like when you see an absolutely stunning girl. You might think, "wow, she is flawless. no man could resist that."

But you know there's some dude somewhere who is completely fed up with her bullshit.
You know what? That gets me thinking... maybe you two just need to spend some time apart. Leave her at my place for a little while! I'll wine her, dine her... maybe re-route some of that plumbing you've been having trouble with
When you get her back, she'll feel like a new car!
__________________

Last edited by spdfreak; 04-13-2014 at 01:50 AM.
spdfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to spdfreak For This Useful Post:
Dezoris (04-13-2014), ProjectGT86 (04-13-2014)
Old 04-13-2014, 02:04 AM   #90
Dezoris
Senior Member
 
Dezoris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: IL
Posts: 2,848
Thanks: 516
Thanked 2,917 Times in 1,083 Posts
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdfreak View Post
I agree with this but it's not entirely about the competence of the engineers. It's got a lot to do with the budget they're working with, as well.

Btw... that story you told in the OP is a lot like when you see an absolutely stunning girl. You might think, "wow, she is flawless. no man could resist that."

But you know there's some dude somewhere who is completely fed up with her bullshit.
You know what? That gets me thinking... maybe you two just need to spend some time apart. Leave her at my place for a little while! I'll wine her, dine her... maybe re-route some of that plumbing you've been having trouble with
When you get her back, she'll feel like a new car!
Haha amazing comparison!!

Take the car and my woman straighten them both out. Oh and take her dog too, bastard starts barking two miles away cause it hears my ricer exhaust coming.
Dezoris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 02:17 AM   #91
extrashaky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: 2014 BRZ Limited
Location: USA
Posts: 3,402
Thanks: 838
Thanked 4,615 Times in 1,851 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
Something to be said for buying a car like a 911 or a Lotus that was purpose built and massaged by experienced/life long performance based engineers.
Sure, if that's what you want. But if that was what you wanted, you wouldn't have bought an FR-S and modded the hell out of it.
extrashaky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 02:33 AM   #92
Tromatic
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: FR-S
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,232
Thanks: 61
Thanked 1,723 Times in 786 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
Something to be said for buying a car like a 911 or a Lotus that was purpose built and massaged by experienced/life long performance based engineers. Not some guy who designed a SUV, Family Sedan and then a sports car on the side.

When we get into mass produced sporty production cars from big brands, the engineers working on a car usually as in the case of the 86 were working on economy cars previously. I think this car was a low risk proving ground for Toyota.

Tada San for example, was given free range to do whatever and he came up with something fun and basic and here we are.

But Tada San is no Andreas Preuninger, and that's why someone would buy a 911 etc for that level of engineering.
Mr. Tada (san means drinking buddy and is pretentious if you are not) put one over on Toyota. He got them to build a car with the same spirit as a 240 or 911. Not his fault if you think it sucks. You already said you hate the car, so STFU.
Tromatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 03:17 AM   #93
clayrush
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: FRS,09 370z, 00 CelicaGT-S, 85 300Z
Location: SF Bay/vallejo
Posts: 651
Thanks: 1,239
Thanked 278 Times in 160 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Bitching about some one bitching?
clayrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 03:29 AM   #94
AirborneDeth
Regular Guy
 
AirborneDeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: '13 FRS '97 Jeep Cherokee
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 150
Thanks: 29
Thanked 92 Times in 40 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
This escalated quickly.

OP, I thought I had posted in my first post in this thread that it was good someone did a write up on real world problems with going FI with this car. I guess I edited that part out accidentally.

It will help someone that was on the fence about going FI make a better informed decision. It won't help me, because I lack the cash flow to even think about the mods you did to your car.

In essence, I live vicariously through all of you that get to do the things I'd like to do to my car.

Carry on.

Last edited by AirborneDeth; 04-13-2014 at 03:44 AM.
AirborneDeth is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AirborneDeth For This Useful Post:
clayrush (04-13-2014)
Old 04-13-2014, 05:37 AM   #95
636
Senior Member
 
636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: Currently rebuilding.
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,626
Thanks: 1,221
Thanked 1,084 Times in 511 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirborneDeth View Post
Complaining about dropping 15 grand in upgrades to your car is ridiculous. I work 2 jobs and can't afford to do what you have to your car. $400 for brake pads? I would be happy with a $100 shift knob, but my family comes before the car does. Why modify the car at all if you don't want to put in the time needed for upkeep? Thats what car people do. Spend time with their car. Be it driving it, washing it, modding it, or showing it. Hell, some people live just so they can post pics of their cars on this forum. Look at the Whiteout thread. Someone photobombs that thread on just about every page, with nothing new done to the car.

Your car is pretty awesome.You might be better suited driving a Prius, though. I drive a stock FR-S, but I love spending time with it when I can.
I lol'd.
__________________
Instagram: @adamstastny
636 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 05:48 AM   #96
AirborneDeth
Regular Guy
 
AirborneDeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: '13 FRS '97 Jeep Cherokee
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 150
Thanks: 29
Thanked 92 Times in 40 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 636 View Post
I lol'd.
As you should have.
AirborneDeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 09:13 AM   #97
Basket Case
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: 2013 Raven fr-s
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 450
Thanks: 193
Thanked 175 Times in 98 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
dear god, this forum is filed with fanboys...
@Dezoris I get your point entirely. This car is my first new car, but I have owned 4 3 dries bmw's, a mustang gt, and a 3rd gen camaro before this. The bimmers started my love for modding cars, but I had a few that got boring after I did almost all I could with them. I ended up building an e36 as far as I could go without a major rebuild and turbo and I eventually got bored working on it more then driving it, SO I completely understand where you are coming form.

This thread reminded me of that and I think Iv got my head strait again for the time being, lol
Basket Case is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Basket Case For This Useful Post:
Dezoris (04-13-2014)
Old 04-13-2014, 09:51 AM   #98
ZDan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '17 BRZ PP, '01 S2k, 6.8 LS3 FD
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 1,948
Thanks: 183
Thanked 1,020 Times in 601 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
  1. Ordering Replacement Brake Rotors and Pads (AGAIN)
  2. Ordering more tires (AGAIN)
  3. Order revised belt and pulley for Vortech kit
  4. Order spare belt tensioner, just in case it breaks at a track or in the middle of nowhere and can't get parts
  5. Transporting, and gathering all equipment and tires to swap from winter to summer
  6. Re-installing the summer brake kit
  7. Bleeding brakes
  8. Re-installing oil cooler lines for spring
  9. Removing bumper to look for leaks or damage
It really seems to me like a LOT more work is being done than necessary.
Point 1: Did you try tracking the car with the stock brakes with good track pads and DOT4 fluid? That would have saved a ton of time/effort/$$$ right there.
$400 *street* pads? For why?
I run low-noise/low-dust inexpensive street pads on the street on my street/track car. Centric Posi-Quiet, $65 all around, no problemo. I even did an unplanned track event with them and they were actually fine (I did lift VERY early on the longest straight to preserve them).
Also, I wouldn't throw away "grooved" pads, especially if they were expensive. I also use rotors to the bitter end (min thickness) and never have them turned. Grooves and all. I haven't experienced warped rotors in forever (not since I stupidly had my old 535i's rotors turned a couple of decades ago).
Do you *really* swap out the rotors and calipers between seasons? Waste of time/money/effort again.
Q: the "cheap Hawk pads" you used, were they HPS? If so, they're likely worse than OEM. Centric street pads are mucho better-o.

2. Tires. Of course tires get used up. I usually *enjoy* the opportunity to buy and try new tires. Getting NT01s for the RX-7 this year after suffering at the track with street tires...

3/4. Revised kit for more power? New spare tensioner because they are known to fail? Of course aftermarket mods are not as well developed for reliability vs. OEM, so some issues are to be expected. Would hope this would become a non-issue at some point...

5. I always ship tires to where I'm going to have them installed. And they keep my winter wheels/tires in the summer and my summer wheels/tires in the winter. Same with parts I know I'm not going to install myself, I have them shipped to the shop. You might see if you can do this with your shop, saves a lot of hassle.

6. Swapping brake systems between winter/summer is, again, IMO, a waste of time/money/effort. I drive on the big brakes all year on my FD, even New England winters (do try to avoid the salt though!).

7. I bleed brakes before ever other track event (of course including the first event of the season). No big deal, especially as the wheels/tires are being swapped for the track event anyway.

8. This also seems a ridiculous waste of time/money/effort. I wouldn't worry about 0W20 synthetic oil not getting "up to temperature" in the winter months. Do you have a thermostat for the oil coiler? Good on you for inspecting, but all this additional labor removing/re-installing the oil cooler and lines is not buying you anything IMO.

9. Periodic inspection is of course a good idea...


TL/DR: You're doing a LOT more work and spending a LOT more money than necessary to run a modded street/track car.
ZDan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post:
avg (04-13-2014), suaveflooder (04-14-2014)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Forza 4 FR-S on XBox360 vs. Real Life FR-S 86boyAF1 Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 1 09-08-2012 02:21 PM
Finally got to see an FR-S in real life...almost drove it too... Rawhyde Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 22 08-10-2012 01:46 PM
86/FR-S Real Life Spottings CSSM Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 22 04-03-2012 12:40 AM
Subaru BRZ real life spottings WingsofWar Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum 1694 03-05-2012 05:13 AM
First Real Life Pics of TRD and Modellista 86/GT86/FR-S !! Harinjo Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum 178 01-23-2012 06:52 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.