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Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


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Old 04-03-2014, 11:19 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by CSG David View Post
Oh how much data we have shared yet everybody thinks it's biased. Unfortunately, an iceberg is the easiest term I can relate our efforts to. I'm glad to hear you have some sort of motivation to find more content and less fluff for this car.
I definitely have to tip my hat to you @CSG Mike and @CSG David for sharing all the information and data you have so far. It also seems that you're among the minority who have shared on track experiences.

@Dezoris has also done an amazing job documenting the vortech kit. @Drift-Office and @AVOturboworld have also shared a lot of testing info, which I appreciate.

Contributors like you guys add huge value to this forum.

The more data the better. For some folks 'more power' is a no brainer. For others it's a numbers game. In my case it needs to be relatively bulletproof and worth it in terms of performance to justify the hassle and expense. I do tend to drive quite hard so I'm taking that into account up front.

A little more caution in terms of maintenance is a given but I wouldn't want to end up with an endless list of issues only to be marginally quicker, if that makes sense.

Again, thanks. We folks out there DO read everything you guys post.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:21 AM   #16
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Disagreed.


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:51 AM   #17
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I suspect the turbo setups will destroy the SC setups for raw acceleration tests.

I've tried many times to get owners to all come to the same event to do some testing, but the best I've ever done at the same event was:

- Greddy kit (no cats, custom tune)
- AVO kit (stage 2, no cats, custom tune)
- Vortech (revised, CARB)
- Jackson Racing (CARB)

Without posting the hard data, I can tell you this:

Response:
Jackson = Vortech >> Greddy >>> AVO

Raw Acceleration:
AVO > Greddy > Jackson = Vortech

Heat Management:
Jackson = Vortech >>> Greddy >> AVO

It was roughly a ~60F ambient day.

I'm with the OP, in that dyno's are getting old. On paper for a DD if your willing to give up the mpg a positive dis. blower should be a nice bolt on. Heat soak wouldn't be an issue like on the track. Interesting you didn't mention the innovate?




From what I've seen with posts on here the basic 250 hp kits all barely get you under 14 seconds if you are a good driver. Ton of variables especially tires.


Edmund's also has a series online about their supercharger endeavors with #'s.


For a daily the car really doesn't need a huge increase. I guess reliability is the most important factor and if you read the forum it appears Avo has done the most R&D for reliability.


Plenty of long threads to read before you chose. I've got 3 more years to decide, hoping there will be a break-thru (Eaton kit .)
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:26 PM   #18
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@regal: I've driven the innovate more than any other kit on track actually (minus Jackson Racing), but it wasn't available the same day for a real back-to-back comparison.

However, here are my thoughts on the Innovate.

The kit is great for street use, and AutoX use. Power delivery is smooth, but throttle tip-in is really aggressive. For track use, it heat soaks, and heat soaks fast, even with the intercooler. As with ALL of the kits mentioned, when you heat soak, power drops, but the Innovate kit is hit the hardest by heat soak. Why? Because once the Intercooler setup is heat soaked, it does almost nothing, and output is virtually identical to a non-ic setup that is heat soaked. It also has the lowest output when next to the other 5 kits mentioned above.

These heat management issues are not really seen on a dyno, unless the tuning shop does a lot of pulls back to back, hood closed, with an air mover. We've verified our findings via dyno doing exactly that. ALL of the kits we've dynoed (on our dime) heat soak to a good degree. There are no exceptions to this, only a "how badly does it heat soak?" Chances are, for most users, this won't be an issue, but it is for us.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:22 PM   #19
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@regal: I've driven the innovate more than any other kit on track actually (minus Jackson Racing), but it wasn't available the same day for a real back-to-back comparison.

However, here are my thoughts on the Innovate.

The kit is great for street use, and AutoX use. Power delivery is smooth, but throttle tip-in is really aggressive. For track use, it heat soaks, and heat soaks fast, even with the intercooler. As with ALL of the kits mentioned, when you heat soak, power drops, but the Innovate kit is hit the hardest by heat soak. Why? Because once the Intercooler setup is heat soaked, it does almost nothing, and output is virtually identical to a non-ic setup that is heat soaked. It also has the lowest output when next to the other 5 kits mentioned above.

These heat management issues are not really seen on a dyno, unless the tuning shop does a lot of pulls back to back, hood closed, with an air mover. We've verified our findings via dyno doing exactly that. ALL of the kits we've dynoed (on our dime) heat soak to a good degree. There are no exceptions to this, only a "how badly does it heat soak?" Chances are, for most users, this won't be an issue, but it is for us.

Thanks for the info, yea I said all along I thought the innovate intercooler was a bit silly and takes away the simplicity for little real gain. I have always been attracted to the basic non-intercooled kit for my DD, but I would want a bullet proof tune without the tip-in knock. I hope they keep selling the basic kit when I'm ready.
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:47 PM   #20
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Thanks for the info, yea I said all along I thought the innovate intercooler was a bit silly and takes away the simplicity for little real gain. I have always been attracted to the basic non-intercooled kit for my DD, but I would want a bullet proof tune without the tip-in knock. I hope they keep selling the basic kit when I'm ready.
AFAIK, tip-in knock is not an issue with any of the supercharger kits that come with a CARB tune. Turbo cars will depend on the tuner selected.

I don't see the non-intercooled kit going away anytime soon.

I highly recommend you read the supercharger comparison sticky.
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:46 PM   #21
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I'm with the OP, in that dyno's are getting old. On paper for a DD if your willing to give up the mpg a positive dis. blower should be a nice bolt on. Heat soak wouldn't be an issue like on the track. Interesting you didn't mention the innovate?




From what I've seen with posts on here the basic 250 hp kits all barely get you under 14 seconds if you are a good driver. Ton of variables especially tires.


Edmund's also has a series online about their supercharger endeavors with #'s.


For a daily the car really doesn't need a huge increase. I guess reliability is the most important factor and if you read the forum it appears Avo has done the most R&D for reliability.


Plenty of long threads to read before you chose. I've got 3 more years to decide, hoping there will be a break-thru (Eaton kit .)



There are people in the high 13's with NA bolt ons and tune. I myself have hit 14.5 @ 96 with just the OFT tune. Stock everything else. So mild turbo kits (>300whp) should get low 13's easily with 12's if your a good driver/have traction.
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Old 04-06-2014, 01:07 AM   #22
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Right - seems this is the best we have at the moment in terms of numbers:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47937

The raw numbers for basic kits don't seem to be that impressive (thing low 14s to high 13s) but worth noting that it seems that our cars suffer from a few peculiarities which affect 1/4 mile times, most notably off the line traction and a shift into 5th before the timing lights.

So, even taking the #s with a grain of salt, it seems that a basic kit will get you a definite (if moderate) benefit in terms of acceleration.
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