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Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


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Old 02-22-2019, 02:29 PM   #155
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finally got my car out of my garage and aligned.

its on fucking rails now.
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:44 PM   #156
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finally got my car out of my garage and aligned.

its on fucking rails now.
Glad you're enjoying it.


We're guessing tax returns are coming in as the next batch suddenly filled up half the allocations. Thank you for your support! Expected beginning of April or possible sooner?!?!?!

Another ninja edit:
Please set the settings based off of full stiff (full clockwise). While supporting users on track, we're surprised a few individuals were dialing the dampers in from full soft. Thank you!
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:28 PM   #157
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Update: We sold out of the CSG FLA - April 2019 batch. Expect the next one to arrive roughly June 2019.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:28 AM   #158
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I am torn between these and the Ohlins.
Ohlins are more expensive, but are they better than this setup?
Also, i see many people here run higher negative camber in the front.
I run -2F and -2.5R and still have oversteer in high speed corners.
I have SPC LCA with SPC Toe arms and whiteline front camber bolts along with Eibach Pro Sport lowering springs.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:18 AM   #159
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If there is oversteer or not, depends what you do with throttle and brakes to shift weight and grip.
OE alignment (1.2 degree less negative camber front vs rear (FC=0dg,RC=-1.2dg)) is rather understeer biased. Common performance alignment of half degree camber is closer to neutral, but still slightly understeer if you take that corner w/o braking (including engine braking, so it should be neutral, if you keep steady throttle for car just to keep speed constant) or accelerating mid corner. Your alignment should probably be somewhere between, so imho it's more possible that you do some driver's inputs to put tail out. Of course, you can adjust suspension for more understeer biased, but imho right way would be to learn mass/grip management on driver's part, so that you can balance grip for more understeer or more oversteer or keep it steady on will by your own inputs.
BTW, what toe settings front and rear are in your alignment? Tire pressures?
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:17 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
I am torn between these and the Ohlins.
Ohlins are more expensive, but are they better than this setup?
Also, i see many people here run higher negative camber in the front.
I run -2F and -2.5R and still have oversteer in high speed corners.
I have SPC LCA with SPC Toe arms and whiteline front camber bolts along with Eibach Pro Sport lowering springs.
What you are purchasing is a refined valving setup. Ohlins has changed their damper system many times over the years, but have decreased their spring rates to reduce weight transfer characteristics. We're not exactly sure what their aim is, but based on the product being sold now, it is designed more towards comfort.

Based on your complaint, it's possible the shocks are worn and you will need a fresh set of dampers. CSG FLA's next shipment is roughly end of May/beginning of June with allocations already being made to that next batch.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:36 AM   #161
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Thanks for the info and response, churchx/CSG. It might be indeed that i am doing something to encourage oversteer in these specific corners. In other corners the car responds nicely. I'll delve into it in the next track day.
Right now i am with RS3 tires (OEM size), and 8" wide wheels (Konig). Toe settings are factory (0) in both axles afaik. Tire pressures are 35-40 psi.

My BRZ is 2017 euro spec and i find it hard to believe the dampers are worn out so fast. I barely do 3000 miles per year.

Regarding the Ohlins, i can buy them in my country with stiffer springs (6/6 or 6/7), we have a dealer here. We don't have a Tein dealer and therefore it will cost me almost as the Ohlins to import them from CSG. Hence the hesitation. I dont mind waiting for June. import / service are the main issue here.
I am also wondering how EDFC active pro will affect the settings on the fly and whether the response is fast enough in corners to really make a difference (i know its not a must).
My favorite track here is mostly technical (top speed not more than 75mph) full of bends and corners, where the BRZ really shines vs more powerful cars. Some of the corners are bumpy, some are smooth and there is also elevation diff.
I can change the Front camber to be -2.5 but i am wondering how it will affect braking.

Last edited by Fizban; 03-12-2019 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:00 AM   #162
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Fizban: i suggest slight toe-in in rear on RWD cars, thus including ours. Even stock alignment on twins has zero toe front and some toe in rear (though too much unprecise difference allowed imho). For example +0.1-0.2degree total toe-in rear (+0.5-0.1 each wheel (even between sides of course)). That should add some stability in rear, allowing a bit sooner opening accelerator coming out of corners, and less nervous car tracking straight on lacking grip (wet/ice/snow/gravel) pavement.
If you track often, i'd go for more camber, eg. starting with -3 front, -2.5 rear. Yes, it may very slightly worsen braking, but it's more then offset with extra grip/better contact patch/more even wear (instead of ripping tire outsides only) when cornering, due static negative camber compensating tire flex in turns. I'd consider lowering camber only if winter or rally gravel use matters, as there grip is lost way before lot of tire sidewall flex happens, or if track days are very rare and it's mostly daily driven only car, that driven within legal speedlimits don't see much side-Gs either. From what i noticed, slight drawback in handling for daily driven car with higher negative camber was a bit more tendency for car to follow road longitudinal grooves/tracks, to extent that i could live with, so i drive with track alignment daily too, reducing camber only in fall as part of winter prep.

Last edited by churchx; 03-12-2019 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:54 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
Thanks for the info and response, churchx/CSG. It might be indeed that i am doing something to encourage oversteer in these specific corners. In other corners the car responds nicely. I'll delve into it in the next track day.
Right now i am with RS3 tires (OEM size), and 8" wide wheels (Konig). Toe settings are factory (0) in both axles afaik. Tire pressures are 35-40 psi.

My BRZ is 2017 euro spec and i find it hard to believe the dampers are worn out so fast. I barely do 3000 miles per year.

Regarding the Ohlins, i can buy them in my country with stiffer springs (6/6 or 6/7), we have a dealer here. We don't have a Tein dealer and therefore it will cost me almost as the Ohlins to import them from CSG. Hence the hesitation. I dont mind waiting for June. import / service are the main issue here.
I am also wondering how EDFC active pro will affect the settings on the fly and whether the response is fast enough in corners to really make a difference (i know its not a must).
My favorite track here is mostly technical (top speed not more than 75mph) full of bends and corners, where the BRZ really shines vs more powerful cars. Some of the corners are bumpy, some are smooth and there is also elevation diff.
I can change the Front camber to be -2.5 but i am wondering how it will affect braking.
Every year of the Subaru BRZ, Scion FR-S, and Toyota 86 has a different personality. The major difference between a CSG FLA and other suspension kits is the development on the different chassis (2013-2016 and 2017+) along with the miniscule differences in the suspension components between platforms and half generations. Our CSG FLA testing has also seen quite a bit of third party drivers driving our setup and other setups. The blind testing helps validate the experiences of found on our CSG FLA while also validating the pros/cons of other systems as well.

What other experiences do you have with driving? Is this your first BRZ? This is important because your rooted experience in handling sometimes imposes a subconscious concept that is difficult to break out of. Your current settings should be a fairly conservative setup to begin with so we must understand what courses you're driving on, etc.

As for shipping to Israel, we do have a DHL account setup now to help our international clients out. You can send us a PM and we can get some sort of quote over to find out if it might work out for you.
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:03 PM   #164
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I can change the Front camber to be -2.5 but i am wondering how it will affect braking.
-4.1° camber here and still have full confidence in my brakes

If you drive hard you'll still be wearing the outside edge at -2.5 and be adding camber in to even out the wear. @churchx describes the downsides of lots of camber pretty well, if there is loss of braking capability you won't feel it at -2.5 or -3 or -4 imho.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:29 PM   #165
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Thanks for all the info guys.
The best i could manage is -2.75F camber.
Once i get the CSG FLA, i'll be able to dial in more negative camber.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:39 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CounterSpace Garage View Post
Every year of the Subaru BRZ, Scion FR-S, and Toyota 86 has a different personality. The major difference between a CSG FLA and other suspension kits is the development on the different chassis (2013-2016 and 2017+) along with the miniscule differences in the suspension components between platforms and half generations. Our CSG FLA testing has also seen quite a bit of third party drivers driving our setup and other setups. The blind testing helps validate the experiences of found on our CSG FLA while also validating the pros/cons of other systems as well.
Note that i have a 2017 BRZ made for Europe. It does'nt have the new 205hp engine and i don't think it has suspension updates.

It is my first BRZ. Before the BRZ i had an E46 328 (model 2000) supercharged which was built mainly for drifting but still be road legal.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:06 AM   #167
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Fizban: EUDM MY2017 has suspension updates. Also possible to get with performance pack of brembos, wheels and shocks. What EUDM one lacks for EURO6 emission compliance sake - intake, exhaust and tune bits (that all combined give that +5hp and updated final drive. Suspension bits are there. Regarding possible drift use .. imho twins are rather limited due small max steering angle (due wheel clearance with wide boxer engine) and a bit lacking power in NA form.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:14 PM   #168
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Note that i have a 2017 BRZ made for Europe. It does'nt have the new 205hp engine and i don't think it has suspension updates.

It is my first BRZ. Before the BRZ i had an E46 328 (model 2000) supercharged which was built mainly for drifting but still be road legal.
It has some updates that is universal for 2017+ vehicles. The E46 is a very forgiving car and fairly easy to extract performance out of. It's an absolute joy to play with those cars. The Subaru BRZ is a little different, but we have done our validation comparison to many other suspension systems over the past 6+ years.
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