Toyota 86 to get power boost with 2015 refresh

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by thill

Has Subaru released a 2.5 N/A that outputs 250hp+ and 250+ft lbs of torque? I was not aware of one that did not have FI as well.

I have been down the turbo route multiple times and do prefer NA, but I would be surprised if they moved away from the 2.0/FA20 engine.

Has anyone in this thread said anything about 250+ ft-lbs of torque? I don't think anyone has said that. With an NA 2.5 liter high performance engine I would think that 170-185 ft-lbs is the high limit of practicality.

[thill]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Has anyone in this thread said anything about 250+ ft-lbs of torque? I don't think anyone has said that. With an NA 2.5 liter high performance engine I would think that 170-185 ft-lbs is the high limit of practicality.

Okay, has Subaru made an NA 2.5L boxer engine that produced 250+ hp and at least 170-185ft lbs of torque that is not FI?

[WolfpackS2k]

I don't know what your point is. 100 hp/liter isn't a big deal these days.

If you want to imply that Subaru's engineering chops suck and they're the "slow kid" in the class then yes, I suppose I should share you view that they can't do it.

[thill]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I don't know what your point is. 100 hp/liter isn't a big deal these days.

If you want to imply that Subaru's engineering chops suck and they're the "slow kid" in the class then yes, I suppose I should share you view that they can't do it.

I am implying that I don't know of a stock 2.5 NA motor that you can just drop in this car that will give you the numbers that will make most people happy around here. In the past Subaru would just turbo their 2.5 engine to get anything over 200hp+. And yeah, I am sure Subaru could do it, but they could also just drop in turbo FA20 which they already make today. There might be some modification to the turbo, but this still seems like the path of least resistance. And the 2.0 would be better to sell outside the US.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by chrisl

The base Cayman engine is pretty close to that - 2.7L H-6 with 275hp@7400. That would be a fun engine in a FR-S/BRZ

Wasn't there some rumor of Toyota selling the FA20 engine design to porsche at one point? I mean a nice engine trade would be cool

[WolfpackS2k]

^^Okay I see your point. I don't know if it would be better than a turbocharged powerplant, but it would be a big step up from the current 2.0 liter engine. And then if people do the corresponding light mods (full exhaust, etc) you can probably get up to 270ish hp which NA would make this car close to perfect. (IMO).

I mean the power craving people that want turbos with 400 hp will never be satisified. I'm not in that boat

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by thill

I am implying that I don't know of a stock 2.5 NA motor that you can just drop in this car that will give you the numbers that will make most people happy around here. In the past Subaru would just turbo their 2.5 engine to get anything over 200hp+. And yeah, I am sure Subaru could do it, but they could also just drop in turbo FA20 which they already make today. There might be some modification to the turbo, but this still seems like the path of least resistance. And the 2.0 would be better to sell outside the US.

I like the idea of them taking the turbo FA20 out of the JDM Legacy and putting it into the new FR-S and BR-Z, it would save them money and they wouldn't really need to retool and spend more money on R&D on a completely new motor, 296 hp and 295 lb ft of torque are plenty for this car. If they were really worried about reliability though which I doubt they could easily dial back the tune for outside Japan Markets to 280 or 270 hp with less boost being run.

[thill]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Okay I see your point. I don't know if it would be better than a turbocharged powerplant, but it would be a big step up from the current 2.0 liter engine. And then if people do the corresponding light mods (full exhaust, etc) you can probably get up to 270ish hp which NA would make this car close to perfect. (IMO).

I mean the power craving people that want turbos with 400 hp will never be satisified. I'm not in that boat

Yeah, and like I said, I would prefer NA too. But, I would be shocked if they dropped the FA20 from this car, or only had a 2.5L option just for the states. But I have been wrong before.

[thill]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

I like the idea of them taking the turbo FA20 out of the JDM Legacy and putting it into the new FR-S and BR-Z, it would save them money and they wouldn't really need to retool and spend more money on R&D on a completely new motor, 296 hp and 295 lb ft of torque are plenty for this car. If they were really worried about reliability though which I doubt they could easily dial back the tune for outside Japan Markets to 280 or 270 hp with less boost being run.

Agreed. The twins are so light.. Maybe 260hp and 250ft lps of torque? That would still be a monster.

[jcX4ever]

Originally Posted by thill

Okay, has Subaru made an NA 2.5L boxer engine that produced 250+ hp and at least 170-185ft lbs of torque that is not FI?

Ask this, and if you know the answer, then you answered your question..

Has Subaru and Toyota made a 2.5L version of the FA20? If not, then most likely there is no 2.5L than outputs 250hp.

***
I like the idea of a new strong 2.5L (in the future) so that along the way, you can always turbo it.. A turbo 2.5L is > turbo 2.0 ...


Pros of 2.5L NA
--It will not likely to add any weight.
--NA response time is always better.
--Have the option to FI it later. I know people here are power hungry.
Cons
-- Will not have that godly torque as FI.. but the twins are very light and you are not likely going to use it for towing.


Pros of 2.0 FI
--More likely to be more powerful than the 2.5L NA.. but if the 2.5L gets an FI... then checkmate!
--Low end Torque
Cons
--It will add weight.. it will likely destroys balance..
--more moving parts.. more parts = more things to break. Reliability

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by regal

That's why it is very odd that Tada's statements about 2015 were made public , especially right before Toyota axes half their Scion dealerships. I can't make sense of it.

Where was this stated, officially? I so want to see this. Seriously, you might have just made my day... week.... month.

[campy]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

Where was this stated, officially? I so want to see this. Seriously, you might have just made my day... week.... month.

IIRC Toyota gave dealerships the option to stop selling Scions. I don't think they're specifically closing down half of them, but I'm sure many dealerships will take Toyota up on that offer.

Once FRS sales start thinning, Scion won't have much else going for it.

Edit: Here's a source: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#axzz2cS0TGWpr

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by campy

IIRC Toyota gave dealerships the option to stop selling Scions. I don't think they're specifically closing down half of them, but I'm sure many dealerships will take Toyota up on that offer.

Once FRS sales start thinning, Scion won't have much else going for it.

Edit: Here's a source: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#axzz2cS0TGWpr

Ok, not as good as the other guy made it sound, but still delicious none-the-less. Thank you for that. Seriously been waiting for this day, called it so long ago when they started with Scion. People didn't believe us, but there it is.

I finally get to say, "I told you so.".

[Frstorm]

Yes Toyota wants half of them to stop selling since they can't keep good inventory and all the scion lots