Perspective Question: c5z06 to BRZ?

[ZDan]

I had a 550hp 6.8 liter LS3 FD RX-7 trackable street car when I got my BRZ to replace my S2000 daily driver. Honestly I love the BRZ a lot more than I thought I would, and with a couple of minor mods it makes a GREAT track car (and autoX too I'm sure). I sold the FD last year and honestly I don't miss the power and incredible speed as much at the track as I thought I would.

If you only thought the C5 Z06 was "OK" at an autoX, imo you might as well try a BRZ (or FR-S or 86) and see what you think. You might find it to be a more engaging and fun car to drive, even if it is quite a bit slower.

[EAGLE5]

If you give me more power, I drive faster, which is bad. Very bad. There is fun in acceleration. There is fun in wringing out an engine and still being below or only slightly above the speed limit. There is fun in lightness and quick handling. There is convenience in having a back seat. There is fun in being low to the ground.

They're just parts of different experiences. I think driving my 5000lbs Ram truck is fun, too. Not so fun in the twisties but great acceleration, tremendous comfort, and a commanding view of the road.

A problem with going turbo or supercharge on the FRS is that, in the end, you finish the fun of wringing out the engine much more quickly, and that 1st - 3rd experience is really nice. Being able to get a slip angle or control the car's balance with throttle, all at sane speeds, is really fun.

In retrospect, a C5Z would have cost less after depreciation and running costs than the FRS. I'd still go back and get the FRS for the wringing out at sane speeds and back seat. I'd still skip the 911, 3 series, M3, STI, G37, and Evo.

But if I already had a C5Z right now, maybe not. Selling is a pain. The taxes are already paid. I have other cars for moving children.

[Jdmuscle]

Originally Posted by dowroa

Thanks. I have thought of this.

However, the wife is cutting me off at 3-cars, and rightly so:

* c5z06 - autoX track
* 16 STi - Daily (100 miles) + required 4-door car
* Fozzie FXT - rallyX

It is where I am at. For this situation, it is either BRZ or C5z06.

Thanks!

Get rid of the wife.. problem solved.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by Jdmuscle

Get rid of the wife.. problem solved.

Nah. I am about 25 years in with 2 kids. I think I am OK with the situation.

Thanks for the critical thinking!

[dowroa]

Thank you for all the suggestions.

As stated, I have been hedging on the edge of all the basic updates I need to do to the c5z06 to make it track worthy. I also have the desire to have a BRZ at some point. It should be an excellent SSC car as well as TT4 car.

I will keep digesting and comparing. Also, I will see if I can find someone locally to complete the outstanding valve replacement and look up a solid oil cooler solution + thermostat.

Thanks again, all!

[Jaylyons1]

Before I purchased my 2013 BRZ, I had a 2008 M3. I had absolutely no regrets selling the M and buying the BRZ. Sure, it had less than half the power at first, but the car was so much fun to drive. For a daily, you can ring it out and still have a blast. I also raced it for 3 years before I received overseas orders. I did not want to sell that car. I've owned a C6 Corvette, 2 MKIV Supras (one that put down over 700hp), 5 WRX's (3 being STIs), and a variety of other cars and I didn't like any of them as much as I liked the BRZ.

Some people will have a completely different opinion, and that's fine. Everyone is different. But for me, for a daily, the BRZ was perfect. If I wasn't in Colorado for the time being, I'd have one right now. I do miss the instant torque anywhere in the rev range that the Corvette had, but the BRZ was plenty adequate.

I will say that I didn't truly begin to love the BRZ until I replaced the exhaust, headers and all, and got a tune. That eliminated the terrible torque dip that seems to plague these cars. That dip in torque is at the worst spot in the range, but it's easily eliminated. Plus, who doesn't like the boxer rumble?

[James H]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I waivered on my response until I came to this line ^.
You have thought things through and if this is what you are after than yes a FRS/86?BRZ is the right car. Not only are high HP cars leashed in the garage they are held back on the roads. Not sure where people get to street drive all these high HP cars anywhere near their potential. There is something to be said to being able to wind a car out and not go to jail.

It is nice to be able to see your car go above 5000rpm and not think about losing your license. Honestly cars like the BRZ are for people who truly enjoy driving. you cannot truly enjoy cars with over 400bhp on public roads. The irony is that the more horsepower they give you on paper, the tighter the electronic nannies control the car so you lose more of the true road feel. BRZ is not a slow car. Still don't understand how automotive journalist can flame the BRZ for being slow while praise cars like the 944 as truly driver's cars because even though they have only 150bhp, they stir up your emotions??!!

[TommyW]

I went from a Twin Turbo 911 to an MX5 to an FRS and it was a good move IMO. The TT was an awesome GT car however you just really can't use the power and it was too heavy to be a decent track car, The MX5 was a fun car however the body roll was just ridiculous and I'm not much for roadsters. I was intrigued by the FRS when it came out and tested one after selling the Mazda. Instant hit. With a tire\wheel package and better springs it ticks all the boxes for what Im after. Awesome track car also.

If more people tracked these rather than jumping into a high HP car they'd end up being much better drivers.

[extrashaky]

You won't be able to adequately judge the cars from responses on the internet. You need to just go drive a BRZ and feel it for yourself. Either the car will speak to you or it won't.

For what it's worth, I grew up in a family with British sports cars and Corvettes. My dad has three Corvettes right now, including a C5, a C4 ZR-1 and a C2, and my brother has a '72 convertible of his own. They have had some others, and I even had a '74 for a while myself that I traded back to my dad for a pickup truck. I don't know what happened to that car.

While I appreciate the Corvettes, I never really wanted one. I got more out of driving the MGs and Triumph. They had low power, but it was matched to the handling. The handling on the BRZ is better than any of our old British cars, but the power is much higher to match the suspension and provide balance in a similar way. Even now the Corvette team is chasing better balance with the new mid-engine model.

So again, if I were you, I'd go drive one. I would try to drive the manual version if possible to get the most engagement with the car and the most out of the experience. If you can find a twisty road for the test drive, do it. If not, scope out a large, empty parking lot where you can invent your own course on the fly to feel how it corners. Not hooning, per se, but just putting it through a little more cornering than you'll get on the street.

None of us can really tell you how you'll feel about the difference in power. Only you can decide that.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

You won't be able to adequately judge the cars from responses on the internet. You need to just go drive a BRZ and feel it for yourself. Either the car will speak to you or it won't.

None of us can really tell you how you'll feel about the difference in power. Only you can decide that.

They both speak to me.

With the input and side discussions I have had (and finding a local shop), I am going to go ahead and prep the z06 and hit some TNiA for now. Get some new shoes on it, and enjoy it, per the original plan.

I will be moving into a BRZ at some point. Maybe as a ChampCar. It speaks to me as well.

Thanks for all the input!



- brian

[Adam_L]

To preface , I've never owned a car with higher torque/HP then the FR-S.

I've heard a few people over the last few years speak of Corvettes as "old mans cars". About 9 /10 times, when ever I see someone driving a Corvette (newer or older) , its a early 50's -70 yr old fella (no ladies).

The LT5 , '93-'95 , I thought I heard good things about / fast. Regardless, V8 , tires/brakes , it's going to cost more to maintain that rig, then just about any 4cyl car, period.

Go test drive an 86. If I was in the market now, I'd go for a nice preowned '17- '18 BRZ, manual , with PP if possible (or limited 2nd choice)… in the color preferred (for me, Red or Assfault gray). Or, get as good of a deal on a new rig, exactly what you want , but used with 10-15k miles should be $5-7k less money.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

To preface , I've never owned a car with higher torque/HP then the FR-S.

I've heard a few people over the last few years speak of Corvettes as "old mans cars". About 9 /10 times, when ever I see someone driving a Corvette (newer or older) , its a early 50's -70 yr old fella (no ladies).

The LT5 , '93-'95 , I thought I heard good things about / fast. Regardless, V8 , tires/brakes , it's going to cost more to maintain that rig, then just about any 4cyl car, period.

Go test drive an 86. If I was in the market now, I'd go for a nice preowned '17- '18 BRZ, manual , with PP if possible (or limited 2nd choice)… in the color preferred (for me, Red or Assfault gray). Or, get as good of a deal on a new rig, exactly what you want , but used with 10-15k miles should be $5-7k less money.

So you're basing your opinion of corvettes on what you "thought" you had heard about a very specific 4th gen model (zr-1) and about seeing some people driving their cars on the street. GTFOH.

[Adam_L]

I eat GTFOH for breakfast. It's like Panda vs. Luke Skywalker with/ without a lightsaber. That's like a MTN Lion vs. a human with a shot gun. Or a 3cyl Yugo vs. a 6 cyl Supra.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

To preface , I've never owned a car with higher torque/HP then the FR-S.

I've heard a few people over the last few years speak of Corvettes as "old mans cars". About 9 /10 times, when ever I see someone driving a Corvette (newer or older) , its a early 50's -70 yr old fella (no ladies).

The LT5 , '93-'95 , I thought I heard good things about / fast. Regardless, V8 , tires/brakes , it's going to cost more to maintain that rig, then just about any 4cyl car, period.

Go test drive an 86. If I was in the market now, I'd go for a nice preowned '17- '18 BRZ, manual , with PP if possible (or limited 2nd choice)… in the color preferred (for me, Red or Assfault gray). Or, get as good of a deal on a new rig, exactly what you want , but used with 10-15k miles should be $5-7k less money.

To preface my reply: I have owned ~9 Subarus, including WRX, RS, STis, Legacy, etc.. I am currently in a 16 STi and 02 z06 as my DDers.

If you think a Corvette is an `old mans car`, please go to an autoX or HPDE. They are a dime-a-dozen and are driven by all age, skill, and somewhat demographics (especially the C5s). Granted, I feel like I am an old man at times.

I re-read the thread to see if I gave the notion that I haven't driven the BRZ, which I don't think I have. However, there is a HUGE difference between a test drive and anyone who has done (and is relatively fast at) HPDE/autoXes. Hence the need for input from those more experienced, as I am not going to get that on a test drive with a car that is stock and under cambered.

The real question is for those who have come from higher powered cars (~400+) driven competitively and then move back down to the BRZ. I think I am asking for a very few people to provide input to that question, but I thought I would ask.

The Corvette is scheduled for valve spring replacement within the month. I will also be getting some 18.x10.5" for the front and looking for a 275/315 setup to start, I think.

Thanks for your input.