Built engine - GEN-2 GTX3076r

[COO86L]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Me neither but he's running 2000cc injectors, really don't know if it makes htat much of a difference.

Jeeeezus 2000CC!

To test if it's injector related, you could swap in the stock injectors and get a tune mapped for them. That will at least tell you if that is the issue.

I'd hate to see you flying someone out to and have it turn out to be something simple as that!

[Kris86]

Originally Posted by COO86L

Jeeeezus 2000CC!

To test if it's injector related, you could swap in the stock injectors and get a tune mapped for them. That will at least tell you if that is the issue.

I'd hate to see you flying someone out to and have it turn out to be something simple as that!

I'm actually running 900cc Deatschwerks injectors..

I could definitely swap them out for the stock ones but would my injectors cause a vacuum leak for real tho ?

Appreciate your help and suggestions

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

The initial startup rough idle is caused by it firing up on larger than stock port injectors. Mines done it for years, you get use to holding the throttle a bit for 20-30sec until it kink onto the direct injectors.

That's good to know. My new motor does this on every startup regardless of temps. Rough idle, stalls unless you hold about 1500 rpm. You can tell when the ECU gets it sorted out cause it blips the throttle then then idle slowly settles down to 900 rpm and smooth as can be after that. If the car has only been off for 10 minutes or so this does not happen. I'm running ID1000's.

[Deep Six]

Additionally, James was data logging my car and adjusting the tune after the new motor went in and he was showing me issues with the cam timing, possibly VVT related during this startup issue. He did not know why it was happening but it would resolve itself every time and the readings went back to normal.

[Kris86]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

That's good to know. My new motor does this on every startup regardless of temps. Rough idle, stalls unless you hold about 1500 rpm. You can tell when the ECU gets it sorted out cause it blips the throttle then then idle slowly settles down to 900 rpm and smooth as can be after that. If the car has only been off for 10 minutes or so this does not happen. I'm running ID1000's.

who is your tuner?


can you PLEASE check and see what your map sensor is reading at idle for me?


what compression ratio engine are you running?

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by Kris86

who is your tuner?


can you PLEASE check and see what your map sensor is reading at idle for me?


what compression ratio engine are you running?

James (HRI Tuning) is my tuner and the motor was built by Rev Works. I chose 11.5 compression ratio because I wanted a little more room for additional boost without seriously compromising off boost performance.


I would give Scott at RevWorks a call. They have built probably a hundred plus FA20/EJ25's and he also has Mike (M Tuned) in his shop on a regular basis.


http://www.revworksinc.com/


https://www.hrituning.com/

[COO86L]

Originally Posted by Kris86

I'm actually running 900cc Deatschwerks injectors..

I could definitely swap them out for the stock ones but would my injectors cause a vacuum leak for real tho ?

Appreciate your help and suggestions

Sorry I haven't read word for word your whole post but what is your current vacuum level at warm idle (if you can maintain warm idle)?

Those DW 900's are fairly bulky injectors but shouldn't cause this much issue as they've been used quite often. I'd definitely at least try swapping OEM injectors and changing map to suit just as a test. Easy way to rule it out.

As to vacuum, I'd hook up an external vacuum gauge to a vacuum source just to see what it's coming back with.

As I believe a couple people have stated, leak down etc looks normal for a fresh engine. Have you done any break in what so ever, any moderate loading to bed the rings in? Engine hasn't idled at operating temperature for extended periods of time before rings bedding in? This could cause low compression etc due to poor ring bedding. Id also try running the engine in on the dyno (moderate load, 50% throttle then 75% throttle) or however your engine builder recommends and check everything again.

[Kris86]

Originally Posted by COO86L

Sorry I haven't read word for word your whole post but what is your current vacuum level at warm idle (if you can maintain warm idle)?

Those DW 900's are fairly bulky injectors but shouldn't cause this much issue as they've been used quite often. I'd definitely at least try swapping OEM injectors and changing map to suit just as a test. Easy way to rule it out.

As to vacuum, I'd hook up an external vacuum gauge to a vacuum source just to see what it's coming back with.

As I believe a couple people have stated, leak down etc looks normal for a fresh engine. Have you done any break in what so ever, any moderate loading to bed the rings in? Engine hasn't idled at operating temperature for extended periods of time before rings bedding in? This could cause low compression etc due to poor ring bedding. Id also try running the engine in on the dyno (moderate load, 50% throttle then 75% throttle) or however your engine builder recommends and check everything again.

Thank you so much for your help and input, I really appreciate it.

We thought it could be the rings being gapped to much, so we pulled the motor and changed the rings for a fresh set. Nothing changed.

We have not really done any breaking in THB, we have taken the car for a 5 minute drive here and there, and had it idling doing fifteen minute data logs here and there.

Was just trying to get a good tune in to be able to drive it around and break it in properly.

Symptoms are, The car starts but has a hard time idling when cold, but when it does warm up, it idles on its own and I can lock it off and turn it back on with out any throttle assistance.

I was just told that due to the poor vacuum the map cannot be cleaned up any further

[COO86L]

Originally Posted by Kris86

Thank you so much for your help and input, I really appreciate it.

We thought it could be the rings being gapped to much, so we pulled the motor and changed the rings for a fresh set. Nothing changed.

We have not really done any breaking in THB, we have taken the car for a 5 minute drive here and there, and had it idling doing fifteen minute data logs here and there.

Was just trying to get a good tune in to be able to drive it around and break it in properly.

Symptoms are, The car starts but has a hard time idling when cold, but when it does warm up, it idles on its own and I can lock it off and turn it back on with out any throttle assistance.

I was just told that due to the poor vacuum the map cannot be cleaned up any further

What were the rings gapped to?

Honestly if it's running fine when warm, I'd be bedding those rings in asap. You don't want to run it at low loads or idle for too long or the bore surface that the rings bed to will be too smooth to bed the rings in.

Provided it's running and not showing any signs of knock etc I'd run it up, get to around 3000rpm and throttle at 50% and apply load with dyno. Do this for a time then return to idle to give engine components time to cool, then repeat at about 75% throttle 3000rpm and load from dyno to hold it there.

Let it cool etc, swap out fluids and then look into your tuning issues.

Of course this is the procedure I use. But if anyone has issue with it such as your tuner or engine builder, then I'd apply the logic they want to see for bedding the rings in.

[Kris86]

Originally Posted by COO86L

What were the rings gapped to?

Honestly if it's running fine when warm, I'd be bedding those rings in asap. You don't want to run it at low loads or idle for too long or the bore surface that the rings bed to will be too smooth to bed the rings in.

Provided it's running and not showing any signs of knock etc I'd run it up, get to around 3000rpm and throttle at 50% and apply load with dyno. Do this for a time then return to idle to give engine components time to cool, then repeat at about 75% throttle 3000rpm and load from dyno to hold it there.

Let it cool etc, swap out fluids and then look into your tuning issues.

Of course this is the procedure I use. But if anyone has issue with it such as your tuner or engine builder, then I'd apply the logic they want to see for bedding the rings in.

The top ring was gapped too .017 and bottom ring was gapped to .019 ( CP pistons )

Is there any way I would be able to do such breaking in on the road instead ? I know it would be a lot easier on a dyno but I kinda wanted to save the dyno time for when the tuner is actually flown in.

Thank you again for such detailed explanations,

Again I do truly appreciate it greatly

[COO86L]

Originally Posted by Kris86

The top ring was gapped too .017 and bottom ring was gapped to .019 ( CP pistons )

Is there any way I would be able to do such breaking in on the road instead ? I know it would be a lot easier on a dyno but I kinda wanted to save the dyno time for when the tuner is actually flown in.

Thank you again for such detailed explanations,

Again I do truly appreciate it greatly

For road only I'd try both of two methods

1. Flog the absolute shit out of it! Not so much redline every gear but don't baby it. High load is good

2. Brake loading. This requires a good stretch of road etc that you can apply throttle as well as the brake to increase load on the engine while also keeping rpm low. You have to be mindful of engine heat as well as brake heat. You don't want to overheat your brakes nor your engine.

[COO86L]

Any update as to how you're going?

[Kris86]

Originally Posted by COO86L

Any update as to how you're going?

Hey bro, I really appreciate your concerns

So I bought a new compression tester this week and just did a new test today. @FRS Justin @Amputechture @GsxrMe @Dipstik-sportech @Moto-Phil

Cyl # 1 = 139
Cyl # 2 = 138
Cyl # 3 = 140
Cyl # 4 = 135

So I guess my old gauge or hose has a issue......

And I also guess that rules out the compression taking the blame for the low vacuum

Only problem is I still have my vacuum issue and it hasn't gotten any better and is still causing havoc with the tuning.

[BRX]

I read the whole thread hoping to see results to compare to my own build.

Have you replaced the damaged compressor seal you posted before? It's supposed to go around the plate behind the blades and not on the housing. A bit obvious but you never know.

I see you are venting the crankcase to the atmosphere. What have you done to the intake manifold and EVAP hoses? I suggest you plug them off and delete them. I deleted my PCV solenoid as it can't hold much boost. I would recheck all the hoses as there might be a simple misplaced hose that's hooked up in the wrong location.

You could also double check your fuel system as it is no longer a returnless system. Your fuel regulator needs a vacuum line to function correctly, at least on my other builds it did. Not sure how the FBM kit works but I'm pretty sure it needs a boost source at least.

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