vs. 128i

[UFfitz56]

No LSD...no thank you

[random]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Vastly? Price yea sure, performance not really. Just for comparison, 3200lb/230ps is 13.9lb/ps, 2700/200 is 13.5lb/ps.

Pounds per horsepower is largely a meaningless number when comparing the performance of cars. Performance is typically measured with acceleration, top speed, track times, lateral grip, etc. Since most people who buy cars will be driving them on the street, things like top speed, track times, lateral grip, et al are just as meaningless as pounds per horsepower. All that's really left for street performance is (straight-line) acceleration, which is still likely going to be vastly different between the FR-S and the 128i.

[SUB-FT86]

The 128i has the same acceleration of a Camry V6. The FR-S will only be .5 seconds slower. I would rather be .5 seconds slower than a 128i and 600 lbs lighter since it's one of the ugliest cars ever made IMHO. FR-S>>>>128i

[Levi]

Toyota GT86
200 PS
0-100 km/h: ~6,5 sec
V-max: ~230 km/h
~27.000 €

BMW 125i (E82)
218 PS
0-100 km/h: 6,4 sec
V-max: 245 km/h
35.500 €

The 1 Series is still heavy compared to the Toyota and also more expensive. You could make it a better car, 130i rebuild (265 PS), Drexler LSD, M3 suspenssion, KW CS coilovers, Supersrint headers, catless pipes, straight pipes, muffler, CF air intake, short shifter, weight reduction,....but it will cost to much, you could already get a Cayman or rebuild the GT86.

[random]

Originally Posted by Levi

Toyota GT86
200 PS
0-100 km/h: ~6,5 sec
V-max: ~230 km/h
~27.000 €

BMW 125i (E82)
218 PS
0-100 km/h: 6,4 sec
V-max: 245 km/h
35.500 €

Ignoring the part about top speed and pounds per horsepower (see my previous post)...

I don't know where you got your numbers, but estimates about acceleration for the FR-86 is about 7 seconds 0-60, maybe high 6s. The 128i is in the low 6s (6.1 according to BMW's web site: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx).

Of course YMMV depending on various factors I've mentioned in my previous post. My point here is that (street) performance is vastly different between the two such that this is meaningless to compare based on the factor. Same goes with price.

Other factors are of course valid. Some people don't like the look of the 1-series. Fine. Some people don't want all the luxury gizmos in the 1-series. Fine too. But price and performance are two factors that are vastly different, and for most people, those are the two primary factors for cross shopping cars.

[ZDan]

Power to weight is the most reliable performance-predicting metric available.

Similar power/weight => similar 0-60 and 1/4-mile time/speed. This car should be close to 6 seconds to 60, low 14s at ~96mph in the 1/4.

[Navi]

The 128i BMW is MUCH more expensive, it's a totally different league then the GT86

[RYU]

What's this crazy talk about power-to-weight not being important? Blasphemy..

Anyhow, My younger brother has a 128 and I drive it often. It would be great if the FR-S/BRZ had the same driving dynamics but that's about as far a stretch as a comparison can be made. The interior alone is night and day.

[Lasse]

If it's correct information that gt 86 díd beat impreza wrx time in 'ring, then i believe it has much more better real life performance than 128i. Albeit they have quite same straight line performance.

128i is much more daily commuter than track car. And its pricey.

[brzmaybe]

Originally Posted by \o/

Two small-ish, 2 door, RWD, "rear seats", NA cars.
The 128i is heavier, but still sporty.
A used one would be close in price to a new 86.

I now drive a 128i. They're fun, and there are some similarities with the BRZ. They're both rear wheel momentum cars with a very well set up chassis, fine brakes, and very good (though electrically assisted) steering.


Best features? It's a great grand touring car, at 60, 90 or 120 mpg. Stable, planted, yet still responsive. And those sport seats... they feel better and better the longer the drive.

But I feel every one of those extra 450 pounds whenever I corner. And my pocketbook is aware that the grip is purchased by expensive soft compound tires and the braking by BMW's infamous soft compound brake pads. I can't bring myself to describe my 128i as tossable. Instant turn in? I think not. Autocrossing? insufficiently nimble. Track days? Not sufficiently exciting to justify $1300 worth of tires at frequent intervals, not to mention brake pads.

I think I'll be trading one very good car for another... different... very good car.

[Dontyouflan]

I'm completely cross shopping the FR-S and the 128i. I'm 22 and taking a new job. It's time for a new car. I'm gonna have to drive 100+ miles a day for this job so...

They're two very different machines but when you put in my criteria they're the only two cars that come up.

New.
Under 35k.
RWD.
Not ugly.


Nothing quite drives like a BMW, but yet the FR-S should be tight and sharp and more appealing as a drivers car... BUT, I gotta drive this thing 100+ miles a day for five years. In five years am I really gonna be happy with the FR-S? What about fit and finish? If the inside looks anything like any toyota I've seen recently, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I could stand it. Maybe I could drape some black scrim over it and just feel around for the controls. Afterwards I could do a nice second gear powerslide and all be well, right?

Then, in five years when I pay off the loan... If I buy the FR-S I'll have an awesome second car. I could take it out on sunny weekends and have serious fun, but the BMW will just be an entry level bimmer, when likely my next car is gonna be a nicer BMW.

If you think you get a lot more frills in the BMW, you're wrong. A basic 128i has, uh, a decent stereo and auto climate control. Power windows and locks, etc... likely the FR-S will have all the same basic options and maybe more.

I've driven a 128i and it drives like it should. It's a small BMW. It's almost perfect except it's a little shakable compared to a 3-series and a little heavy compared too.... an FR-S.

I wish I could just go drive an FR-S and calm these voices in my head, but no, I can't. So I just go over it all over and over again.

Is the FR-S really gonna be fun enough to be worth all the... toyota-ness of it?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

will the 128i really be in the low-mid $20k range? I figured it would be closer to $30k.


The 1 series looks absolutely ridiculous to me. Am I the only one that feels that way? It screams girl car to me (no offense to the girls). It just really looks like something rich college girls would drive.

I'd buy a 10 year old 3 series before I bought a 1 series.

To answer your question. No. I feel the same way, it is ugly as hell IMO.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Dontyouflan

I'm completely cross shopping the FR-S and the 128i. I'm 22 and taking a new job. It's time for a new car. I'm gonna have to drive 100+ miles a day for this job so...

They're two very different machines but when you put in my criteria they're the only two cars that come up.

New.
Under 35k.
RWD.
Not ugly.


Nothing quite drives like a BMW, but yet the FR-S should be tight and sharp and more appealing as a drivers car... BUT, I gotta drive this thing 100+ miles a day for five years. In five years am I really gonna be happy with the FR-S? What about fit and finish? If the inside looks anything like any toyota I've seen recently, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I could stand it. Maybe I could drape some black scrim over it and just feel around for the controls. Afterwards I could do a nice second gear powerslide and all be well, right?

Then, in five years when I pay off the loan... If I buy the FR-S I'll have an awesome second car. I could take it out on sunny weekends and have serious fun, but the BMW will just be an entry level bimmer, when likely my next car is gonna be a nicer BMW.

If you think you get a lot more frills in the BMW, you're wrong. A basic 128i has, uh, a decent stereo and auto climate control. Power windows and locks, etc... likely the FR-S will have all the same basic options and maybe more.

I've driven a 128i and it drives like it should. It's a small BMW. It's almost perfect except it's a little shakable compared to a 3-series and a little heavy compared too.... an FR-S.

I wish I could just go drive an FR-S and calm these voices in my head, but no, I can't. So I just go over it all over and over again.

Is the FR-S really gonna be fun enough to be worth all the... toyota-ness of it?

Well, not ugly?? Anyway.....

At least be prepared, that the 128 will not really reach the sports level of the old BMWs.
As you have seen the car is about 1.5 tons - right about the same as a Corvette.
And there are these stupid runflat tires, which perform really poor in the wet - they loose grip rather suddently, not good for drifting. In addition they are quite small for such an heavy car. But stay away from the tires of the 135i (215 front / 245 rear), as this will sure give you pretty much understear.

Have you ever considered a Miata?

[Dontyouflan]

The 128i I would order would not come with run flat tires.
128i+sport package+moonroof. $33k

I like mx5s... but they are not for me.