Rotate my own tires?

[zinzan]

Interesting idea about not rotating. Food for thought, but I will probably continue to rotate to even the tire wear. I prefer and can afford to replace four tires at a time instead of two. Plus, whenever I do need new tires, it always seems like there is savings on all four tires at once (e.g. buy 3 get 1 free, or $70 off a set of 4).

@MightyMeeple, you might want to consider a 19mm deep socket and socket extension. Some sockets won't grab enough of the lug nuts, and if they do, you may not want to risk scraping your knuckles or scratching the wheels with your socket wrench.

As far as renting a torque wrench, I bought a $35 clickable torque wrench on sale at Harbor Freight for $11, and a few days later it was on another sale at $9. Not sure how long it will last, but reviews I found said it was an adequately precise torque wrench. Worth $11, anyway.

-Z

[FR-S Matt]

90 ft lbs is fine even for aftermarket wheels. It's tight without going overboard. This is why I have Discount Tire do my rotations. Precise calibration and any TPMS work is done if needed. Hard to get a car up on 4 jacks when you're lowered too.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by zinzan

I bought a $35 clickable torque wrench on sale at Harbor Freight for $11, and a few days later it was on another sale at $9.

Probably +/- 5%, so it should be fine.

While you have the car up, it's an excellent time to examine all of your braking components for wear or damage, check for loose nuts or bolts by putting a wrench on them, see that your exhaust system is still attached the way it came, look for any fluid leaks, etc., etc.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

This would be great and true if the car always went in a straight line--but it doesn't.

Believe me, my cars go around their fair share of corners! What does cornering do? It wears the outside edges if you don't have much negative camber. What does rotating do to help? Not much if anything, since after rotation the outside edges of the tires are *still* the outside edges, just on a different end of the car.

Is the FR-S/BRZ known to have asymmetric wear on one end and not on the other? Neither of my 240SX's (also front strut rear multilink FR cars with the same weight distribution) had any asymmetric wear issues despite some limited track usage.

It would be great if the alignment on a car never needed adjustment--but it does.

Alignments on my cars has tended to be very stable, such that I rarely have to have it adjusted. Once a year at most.

I haven't seen anyone agree with you, but assuming you aren't trolling, are you trying to say that the normal, everyday driving of a car doesn't wear the tread unevenly? Or would you rather just suggest having an alignment done every 3-6 months is preferable to a half-hour of effort?

None of my cars has had any serious issues with asymmetric wear over the years, even when tracked. Radials do a fairly good job of distributing the load fairly evenly across the tread even with a fair amount of camber.

And alignment shouldn't be moving around that much over the course of 3-6 months even if tracking the car.

I'm not trolling, just curious why people still rotate tires religiously when for the most part it shouldn't be necessary on a modestly powered 55/45 FR car like the FR-S/BRZ.

Even if doing donuts all the time and want to replace all four at once, no reason to do it every 2000 miles or whatever. Just wait until the *average* tread depth between the fronts and the rears is ~6/32" (halfway to the treadwear indicators) to rotate so you only have to do it *once*.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Believe me, my cars go around their fair share of corners! What does cornering do? It wears the outside edges if you don't have much negative camber. What does rotating do to help? Not much if anything, since after rotation the outside edges of the tires are *still* the outside edges, just on a different end of the car.

Is the FR-S/BRZ known to have asymmetric wear on one end and not on the other? Neither of my 240SX's (also front strut rear multilink FR cars with the same weight distribution) had any asymmetric wear issues despite some limited track usage.

Alignments on my cars has tended to be very stable, such that I rarely have to have it adjusted. Once a year at most.


None of my cars has had any serious issues with asymmetric wear over the years, even when tracked. Radials do a fairly good job of distributing the load fairly evenly across the tread even with a fair amount of camber.

And alignment shouldn't be moving around that much over the course of 3-6 months even if tracking the car.

I'm not trolling, just curious why people still rotate tires religiously when for the most part it shouldn't be necessary on a modestly powered 55/45 FR car like the FR-S/BRZ.

Even if doing donuts all the time and want to replace all four at once, no reason to do it every 2000 miles or whatever. Just wait until the *average* tread depth between the fronts and the rears is ~6/32" (halfway to the treadwear indicators) to rotate so you only have to do it *once*.

I'm glad you have logical conclusions to based your opinion off of...but I still disagree with you, and I have just as much conventional wisdom to back it up. I'll just leave it at that, and keep my peace of mind. Also, the fact that I don't have to pay for them to be rotated and its a minimum of effort makes this a non-issue IMO.

[ZDan]

Rotate away if you want, it certainly won't hurt anything. But it's pretty pointless if the tires are wearing about the same all around. And if they are wearing differently front/back, you can time the rotation such that you only need to do it once per set.

My experience of owning similar FR cars and getting even wear and long life all around supports my conclusion that rotations are not necessary.
However, your experience of rotating tires all the time and (presumably) getting even wear and long life does NOT prove that rotations are beneficial or necessary.

Running minimal toe is way more important for tire life than tire rotation. Rotation won't increase tire life on average, it only ensures that all four wear out at the same time. But then that might happen anyway without rotation depending on the car and usage...

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by frslee

No need to worry about anything.
Jack 1 side at a time, use torque wrench to remove lug nuts and torque it down!

you should not be anywhere near cars, mang

[zinzan]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

you should not be anywhere near cars, mang

I assume it was a typo on his part, as I had already mentioned that I have a breaker bar.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by zinzan

I assume it was a typo on his part, as I had already mentioned that I have a breaker bar.

you'd be surprised how many people don't actually know which tool is for what

also, some people tighten using a regular ratchet, overtighten, then "check" the torque... and of course the wrench clicks, so they think they have it perfect... :/

[zinzan]

Lol, yep. I remember changing flats when I was a teenager, standing on the tire iron to tighten or loosen bolts. I was a skinny 120 lb kid back then, but still over-torquing, no doubt.

I deserved the skint shins I suffered from that stupidity. :-) but to be fair, I didn't know that breaker bars existed and didn't have the muscle to remove the over-tightened lugs by hand. Didn't know anything about torque wrenches except that I couldn't afford one.

And this was long before internet forums, etc.

[TrackRider54]

I always rotate my own tires. I use four jack stands so I can cross rotate (provided the tread is not directional). I also take the opportunity to inspect the brakes and clean everything really well. If you have a car with higher miles, you should also check the bearings.

[frslee]

yes, it's a typo.. My grammar is sometimes whack while I'm typing.
Only use torque wrench when tightening! haha