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Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) Everything related to the mechanical maintenance of the FR-S and BRZ


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Old 12-06-2012, 10:43 AM   #1
Sportsguy83
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Alisyn Oil and Oil Recommendations

Reviews, recommendations, compliance with required oil?

Viscosity, thickness, etc.


I have heard GREAT reviews for it but I know there is very knowledgeable people here.





@gmookher @bluesubie are welcomed to chime in.

Last edited by Sportsguy83; 12-07-2012 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:58 AM   #2
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http://www.aerospacelubricants.com/f...%206%20tds.pdf

http://syntheticlubricants.aerospace...=prod&filter=0
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:45 AM   #3
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I had no idea that they made engine oil but here's some info.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=987080
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1325500

There must be some non-metallic additives that do not show up in uoa's because the uoa looks weak. Also, Blackstone doesn't test for antimony but apparently Alisyn has it. Antimony is a friction modifier and an anti-wear additive.

After recently switching to Motul 300V, and trying Red Line in the past, I don't think that I'll go back to a non-ester based oil again in my Forester. Due to the polarity of the ester base stocks, it clings to the engine internals and starts immediately. I got the 300V for free because I purchased it from a Subaru dealer with my Subaru Mastercard rewards (Subaru bucks). Other than RL or 300V, I would probably run Renewable Lube Inc. RLI is vegetable based and uses copper and antimony as anti-wear additives.

Keep in mind that none of the above oils are API certified if that is a concern.

Just noticed that the viscosity of the Alisyn is barely a 20 weight. 20 weights begin at 5.6 cst's and Alisyn is 5.98.

-Dennis
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
I had no idea that they made engine oil but here's some info.....
-Dennis
Thanks a for for your input. My head is going to EXPLODE after trying to go through the various threads. I am an engineer, so when we talk about Kinematic Viscosity and all the terms I understand them. What is being extremely hard for me is understanding what would be the best motor oil for my situation.

My car will be going FI in some months. I won't be tracking it a lot, maybe once a year. I don't step too much on the gas, but do it from time to time. I see all over the forums people recommending this and that just because they like it, not because of hard numbers. Based on my situation, I am between Royal Purple, Amsoil Signature series (this one concerns me its not ILSAC certified don't really know if that's good or bad as opinions go back and forth), Motul 8100 Eco Lite, Eneos......


Dennis... PLEASE HELP!!! Based on my situation, what would you recommend?

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:55 PM   #5
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I had no idea that they made engine oil but here's some info.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=987080
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1325500

There must be some non-metallic additives that do not show up in uoa's because the uoa looks weak. Also, Blackstone doesn't test for antimony but apparently Alisyn has it. Antimony is a friction modifier and an anti-wear additive.

After recently switching to Motul 300V, and trying Red Line in the past, I don't think that I'll go back to a non-ester based oil again in my Forester. Due to the polarity of the ester base stocks, it clings to the engine internals and starts immediately. I got the 300V for free because I purchased it from a Subaru dealer with my Subaru Mastercard rewards (Subaru bucks). Other than RL or 300V, I would probably run Renewable Lube Inc. RLI is vegetable based and uses copper and antimony as anti-wear additives.

Keep in mind that none of the above oils are API certified if that is a concern.

Just noticed that the viscosity of the Alisyn is barely a 20 weight. 20 weights begin at 5.6 cst's and Alisyn is 5.98.

-Dennis
I'm running 300v also, i see you mention its not API certified should i be concerned with warranty? I'm sure with my mods my warranty is questionable anyways but i wouldn't mind switching back to the 8100 if it's safer.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:35 PM   #6
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I'm running 300v also, i see you mention its not API certified should i be concerned with warranty? I'm sure with my mods my warranty is questionable anyways but i wouldn't mind switching back to the 8100 if it's safer.
I didn't see anything that confirms this product meets the specifications required for the vehicle in question.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:01 PM   #7
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I'm sure with my mods my warranty is questionable anyways ...
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

Sportsguy, if you're adding a turbo your warranty is done anyway so just run one of the above oils. A cheaper option would be Castrol Edge SPT (or whatever it's called now) 0W-30 (German Castrol).

This is what Amsoil says about non-API oils. They do offer both certified and non-certified.

API Certification Concerns
Another common misconception is that motor oils must be API certified in order to meet warranty requirements. The fact is, lubricants are not required to be certified by the API, only meet or exceed API specifications. An API license indi- cates that a specific motor oil formulation has passed the minimum performance standards as defined by a series of laboratory bench tests that include physical, chemical and engine tests.

http://www.amsoil.com/news/2008_worr...warranties.pdf

It really depends how much grief you would get from a dealer. The first thing that Subaru, and probably Scion, would ask for in an engine repair warranty claim is your oil receipt.

There was a case on nasioc where a guy ran API SM certified Rotella T6 5W-40 in a stock WRX one model year after Subaru dropped 5W-40 from the manual. He took his car to the dealer with a check engine light and the dealer claimed that he had a misfire from running 5W-40, even though there were no changes to the engine from the previous year.

The dealer drained the Rotella, added 5W-30, and charged the guy $100 for an oil change. One week later, the check engine light came on again.

-Dennis
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:47 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

Sportsguy, if you're adding a turbo your warranty is done anyway so just run one of the above oils. A cheaper option would be Castrol Edge SPT (or whatever it's called now) 0W-30 (German Castrol).

-Dennis
You are right, I shouldn't worry about the warranty since obviously FI will void it. My concern was more saying "will it hurt the engine given the fact its not certified.

I know I can run any of the oils I mentioned above, the thing is that I want to run an oil that is in fact GOOD, but I don't want to over do it getting the most expensive one for nothing really. This is what is bothering me. Some people say Motul is the best. Others say the formula has been declining steadily and its not quality anymore. Some say Royal Purple is amazing, others say its just a marketing stunt and its a POS. Some swear by Amsoil, others say it is not touching their car. Reading your posts you seem like an extremely knowledgeable guy in the field. I know I am asking for your opinion, but since you have proved to me you know your sh*t regarding oils, given my particular conditions (weekend car, spirited driving, track rare, summer temps 90-97 winter temps over 40), what oil do you recommend me? I can just get Motul 8100 and call it a day since its the one most people swear by.

I just don't want to go out and spend $17 a quart if I really honestly don't need it. (On another note, I only found Castrol SPT in Amazon going for about $8 a quart). One last one, after going FI you recommend 0w-30?

I'm sorry to bother, I promise you its my last questions. I put it here instead of PM for the benefit of other members.

Have a good day.

Last edited by Sportsguy83; 12-07-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:03 PM   #9
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I try to keep an open mind about oil instead of being loyal to one brand. I've also been on bobistheoilguy for a long time so I tune in closely there to the people that actually work in the oil industry (although there are only a few left) instead of the people that think that looking at a product data sheet, or buying oil only from Wal-Mart, is the best way to choose oil.

IMO, none of the oils that I've mentioned will hurt the engine unless you have a problem (like burning a quart every 500 miles). Red Line and the old Motul 300V have lots of phosphorus which has been reduced in current oils for fear of cat poisoning.
http://www.gf-5.com/the_story/performance/

IMO (notice how I use IMO a lot), you would have to be burning a lot of oil for it to get to your cats to do harm. One of the guys in the oil industry at bitog has been using diesel oil in cars since the 1960's! After years and years of blown turbos and spun bearings at nasioc, more and more people are running oils that are not Resource Conserving GF5 or GF4 oils and are having less problems these days. Almost every time someone has a problem it is from using a GF5 oil on a modified car. No dead cat threads there!

Ideally, you want an oil thin enough to properly lubricate the engine, not cause excessive drag, has a good anti-wear additive package, and provide decent fuel economy. I think Royal Purple's marketing is crap. They take a machine used to test Extreme Pressure additives in gear oils and test their engine oils and everyone thinks it's great oil. Their old 5W-30 is known to shear badly even in moderate conditions. All of their oils have been reformulated though and some of the GF5 oils of all brands are showing pretty impressive results, although I'm still leery of using them in a modified turbo car that specs 5W-30.

GC is popular because it stays in grade, meets European ACEA A3 specs for shear stability, is usually found at Autozone, is a robust 30 weight for folks that don't want a 40 weight, and turns out very good uoa results in various conditions. It also meets the old API SL specs so it has higher amounts of anti-wear additives like zinc and phosphorus.

Mobil1 0W-40 has slightly higher levels of anti-wear additives than GC, but it could be overly thick if you have stock internals. Amsoil oils are very good and a lot of people hate them for the way they do business and you can't buy it at Wal-Mart. Amsoil Series 3000 HDD 5W-30 has shown good uoa results in WRX's and is a robust 30 weight with higher zinc and phosphorus levels than Rotella!

The problem with a new car is that there isn't a lot of data out there so you guys are pretty much pioneers. On stock internals with FI, I would probably run one of the following and do a used oil analysis at around 4-5k miles to see how it's holding up:
- 2 quarts of Motul 300V 0W-20 with the rest Motul Eco-lite 0W-20.
- 100% Red Line 0W-20 or 5W-20 (RL 5W-20 will behave more like a robust 30 weight with it's high High Temp High Shear).
- 2 quarts of Amsoil Dominator 5W-20 topped up with Amsoil ALM 5W-20. (Amsoil Dominator has more ZDDP than Rotella)
- GC 0W-30
- And MPT has a crazy high additive package as well (but no 20 weight).
http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/store...reet_oils.html

I would probably lean more towards a 20 weight on stock internals. You just don't have a lot of choice with robust 20 weights. I've run very thick 40 weights and very thin 30 weights* and the only oils that I really noticed a subjective difference with are Red Line and Motul 300V.

*Motul Eco-nergy 5W-30 API SL
Motul X-clean 5W-30 API SM
Motul 300V 0W-40 No API
Red Line 5W-30
GC API SL
Mobil1 10W-30 High Mileage API SL
Mobil1 0W-40 API SM and SN
Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40 API (I forget)
Amsoil DEO 5W-40 API SM(?)
Amsoil SSO 0W-30 (No API)
Mobil1 5W-30 (old API SL version)

Hope this doesn't confuse you more.

-Dennis
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:32 PM   #10
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@bluesubie, again thank you for such great information. It is a lot of information to digest, but you definitely made things clearer to me, now I can make an educated decision.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:37 PM   #11
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Dennis, i ran the Motul 8100 0w20 on my first change and the 300v 0w20 on the second, i change my oil probably more often than neccesary but it helps me sleep at night when i'm out driving hard. Why would you not run the 300v 100%? I would rather run one or the other i'm a little leary about mixing them.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:52 PM   #12
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bluesuie is right. All of those are very good oils, and because there is very little data with this new engine, we are the testers!

I currently just switch to GC, and next oil change i will run Motul or Amasoil and will get a oil analysis after each change so we get a better understanding of the FA20 engine with some hard numbers.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:02 PM   #13
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Please keep us updated, I am very interested.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:37 PM   #14
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Why would you not run the 300v 100%? I would rather run one or the other i'm a little leary about mixing them.
Only because Sportsguy mentioned not wanting to pay that much for a full oil change at ~$17 for 2 liters of 300V. With mixing them, you might still get the benefits of both oils at a cheaper cost. The superior ester base stocks of 300V, with the added detergent levels and lower cost of 8100. There are actually guys at bobistheoilguy that regularly mix oils to achieve a certain viscosity or additive blend.

I guess the caveat of mixing oils is you really don't know how the new package will work together. Some additives actually compete with each other such as detergents trying to clean away layers of anti-wear additives. Anything regarding Motul, you can just look up their phone number and give them a call.

This is why it's always a good idea to do a few uoa's with the TBN. If your wear metals are low, you have a decent TBN, and flashpoint is good, there's no reason not to run an oil to 7,500 miles.

-Dennis
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