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Old 06-21-2018, 04:07 PM   #57
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only immediate usefulness for a tuck for me would be to carry kayaks...
You're wrong. You don't realize it, but you are. When you have a truck or SUV, you end up using it for all sorts of things that don't even come to mind now because you're used to denying yourself without realizing it. When I want something that won't fit in the BRZ, I just take my XJ instead. "How will I get it home?" is a question that rarely comes up.

An old Jeep Comanche would fit your budget. People get up to 400K miles out of them, especially if you find one with a 4.0L. Also consider an S10. They are super easy to work on and have huge aftermarket support.

If I didn't have any sort of utility vehicle, I'd be looking at full sized Chevy/GM pickups or Tahoes/Yukons/Suburbans. Not a giant brodozer, but one of their normal sized pickups or SUVs. The gas mileage is not nearly as bad as you'd expect, and the damned things are tough as shit and last forever. We've use my dad's '01 Yukon to move furniture, dogs, engine blocks, transmissions, jetskis, boats, cars and utility trailers. My brother and I used it to pull a Jeep J10 pickup on 35" tires a few hundred miles from Tennessee down to Birmingham. Yet it drives like a vehicle half its size and doesn't beat you to death like some of the older trucks could.

Personally I'd stay away from Fords. That company has always cut corners.
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:11 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by extrashaky View Post
You're wrong. You don't realize it, but you are. When you have a truck or SUV, you end up using it for all sorts of things that don't even come to mind now because you're used to denying yourself without realizing it. When I want something that won't fit in the BRZ, I just take my XJ instead. "How will I get it home?" is a question that rarely comes up.

An old Jeep Comanche would fit your budget. People get up to 400K miles out of them, especially if you find one with a 4.0L. Also consider an S10. They are super easy to work on and have huge aftermarket support.

If I didn't have any sort of utility vehicle, I'd be looking at full sized Chevy/GM pickups or Tahoes/Yukons/Suburbans. Not a giant brodozer, but one of their normal sized pickups or SUVs. The gas mileage is not nearly as bad as you'd expect, and the damned things are tough as shit and last forever. We've use my dad's '01 Yukon to move furniture, dogs, engine blocks, transmissions, jetskis, boats, cars and utility trailers. My brother and I used it to pull a Jeep J10 pickup on 35" tires a few hundred miles from Tennessee down to Birmingham. Yet it drives like a vehicle half its size and doesn't beat you to death like some of the older trucks could.

Personally I'd stay away from Fords. That company has always cut corners.
Ive never heard the term bro-dozer before but I like it. A tahoe/suburban may be a good idea yeah
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:01 PM   #59
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Ive never heard the term bro-dozer before but I like it. A tahoe/suburban may be a good idea yeah
I love my Suburban. It's a '04 ZL1 that I bought in 2012 (it was $50K new, I paid $10,000 for it from a dealer). It was just shy of 100,000 miles. I've put another 50K on it. I've updated a few things (headunit, backup camera) and there are a few things that could be fixed but I would trust it to drive pretty much anywhere. It's our family car basically.

I've had other Chevy trucks (two Astros) that I have gotten almost 300,000 miles each out of with no issues.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:56 AM   #60
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So you got a twin... that covers the sport... so now you need cheap, fun utility


1. Any year - Honda Fit - $5-10k... Cheap, spacious, great on gas, infinitely moddable
Gonna second this.
I bought a $5k (CAD) 08 Honda Fit from a friend. Great 5-speed (you wouldn't feel like it was econobox-spec by feel alone), lightweight with fun suspension (small-car tossability), and ridiculous practicality (magic seats, huge trunk, tall body, etc.).
Mods are available, but with an asterisk: I've found a lot of the most popular drivability mods from the forums (such as a deadpedal/footrest which Honda for some reason omitted), and electronic throttle controllers (to spruce up the DBW response) are either discontinued or very rare/expensive.
However, getting things like consumables and wheels are cheap (4x100 bolt pattern), although finding more aggressive tires in the stock sizes can be bothersome (i.e. no MPSS for anything less than 17s). That L15A can be turboed (or K20-swapped).

Reliable - although some have had water leakage issues in the hatch, the engine tends to be super reliable (a common issue is misfire/stutter due to the ignition coils - mine needed to be replaced but runs great now).
The open diff does feel a bit weird (on rare occasions) after driving only cars with LSDs over the last 4 years.

Although I would love a 3rd gen MR2 as well (unfortunately we never got them up north, except imported from the US).

I also spent some time looking for a 5MT IS300 (I learned to drive manual so I could testdrive that when I worked at a dealer, way back when they were new). Gas consumption is high, and practicality seemed surprisingly-compromised (no fold-down seats was a no-no to me - that little passthrough wouldn't cut it). Those seem to hold their value in the right condition (I found one where the seller was asking $9,500CAD, when I know he bought it off a forum member for $7,000CAD two years and xx,xxxkm earlier). Engine always felt great, and the shifter was probably the easiest I've ever used.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:03 AM   #61
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My favorite second car was a '99 Miata.


RWD, affordable, huge aftermarket support, cheap maintenance, fun to drive.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:43 PM   #62
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Gonna second this.
I bought a $5k (CAD) 08 Honda Fit from a friend. Great 5-speed (you wouldn't feel like it was econobox-spec by feel alone), lightweight with fun suspension (small-car tossability), and ridiculous practicality (magic seats, huge trunk, tall body, etc.).
Mods are available, but with an asterisk: I've found a lot of the most popular drivability mods from the forums (such as a deadpedal/footrest which Honda for some reason omitted), and electronic throttle controllers (to spruce up the DBW response) are either discontinued or very rare/expensive.
However, getting things like consumables and wheels are cheap (4x100 bolt pattern), although finding more aggressive tires in the stock sizes can be bothersome (i.e. no MPSS for anything less than 17s). That L15A can be turboed (or K20-swapped).

Reliable - although some have had water leakage issues in the hatch, the engine tends to be super reliable (a common issue is misfire/stutter due to the ignition coils - mine needed to be replaced but runs great now).
The open diff does feel a bit weird (on rare occasions) after driving only cars with LSDs over the last 4 years.

Although I would love a 3rd gen MR2 as well (unfortunately we never got them up north, except imported from the US).

I also spent some time looking for a 5MT IS300 (I learned to drive manual so I could testdrive that when I worked at a dealer, way back when they were new). Gas consumption is high, and practicality seemed surprisingly-compromised (no fold-down seats was a no-no to me - that little passthrough wouldn't cut it). Those seem to hold their value in the right condition (I found one where the seller was asking $9,500CAD, when I know he bought it off a forum member for $7,000CAD two years and xx,xxxkm earlier). Engine always felt great, and the shifter was probably the easiest I've ever used.
maintenance on the is300 is $$$ even if you do it yourself... I did the timing belt service myself and it took 12 hours with breaks of course...
The old 2jz is leaaakkyyy and when you do that timing belt service every single seal back there needs to be replaced including the VVTI gear because that thing will leak too. not awful to work on but not easy either.
The ecu doesnt like piggy backs and will fight with them to correct fuel trims. So if you want to tune it a standalone is pretty much required to run right if you add a turbo or swap engines to a 1jz or 2jzgte AFAIK. But it is rock solid once you replace all the seals and hoses, suspension bushings and belts...
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:57 PM   #63
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For a "cool" second car I'd like to get one of the new Toyota corolla hatchbacks
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Old 06-25-2018, 08:12 PM   #64
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A gen 6 Mustang isn't exactly cheap but pretty great bang-for-buck for what you get in comfort and styling. Yes, they're extremely common (but for good reason).

For comparison, my previous secondary car (before my BRZ but kept as a daily driver) was a fully loaded Suzuki SX4 that cost me $19k new in 2011. Nothing special about it except it was the cheapest AWD car on the non-pre-owned market. Last December I decided to replace it with another 4-cyl (probably FWD and used) daily driver for under $20k. Til I realized I could get something much cooler for the same budget...



...A V6 Mustang which I got for $19k after rebates and an hour haggling. MSRP was $26k but I can sell it in a few years for a just a little less than what I bought it if I wanted to (older used ones with one or two tens of thousands of miles are $19k on Carmax). A few less MPGs than my SX4 but a HUGE difference in performance and ride quality (this Mustang gen is the first with independent rear suspension) and more capable/comfortable highway cruiser than a stock BRZ. The final revision of the 300hp V6 is no joke and faster than the previous gen V8 engine. Plus bulletproof with forged components and Mazda uses a variation of it. I prefer its base trim seats (more supportive and has bolstering), seat/steering wheel/pedals range adjustment to get a more perfect seating position for comfort, and shifter placement over the BRZ.

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Old 06-25-2018, 08:54 PM   #65
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Brz / frs make great second cars.
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Old 06-25-2018, 08:59 PM   #66
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A gen 6 Mustang isn't exactly cheap but pretty great bang-for-buck for what you get in comfort and styling. Yes, they're extremely common (but for good reason).

For comparison, my previous secondary car (before my BRZ but kept as a daily driver) was a fully loaded Suzuki SX4 that cost me $19k new in 2011. Nothing special about it except it was the cheapest AWD car on the non-pre-owned market. Last December I decided to replace it with another 4-cyl (probably FWD and used) daily driver for under $20k. Til I realized I could get something much cooler for the same budget...



...A V6 Mustang which I got for $19k after rebates and an hour haggling. MSRP was $26k but I can sell it in a few years for a just a little less than what I bought it if I wanted to (older used ones with one or two tens of thousands of miles are $19k on Carmax). A few less MPGs than my SX4 but a HUGE difference in performance and ride quality (this Mustang gen is the first with independent rear suspension) and more capable/comfortable highway cruiser than a stock BRZ. The final revision of the 300hp V6 is no joke and faster than the previous gen V8 engine. Plus bulletproof with forged components and Mazda uses a variation of it. I prefer its base trim seats (more supportive and has bolstering), seat/steering wheel/pedals range adjustment to get a more perfect seating position for comfort, and shifter placement over the BRZ.

The salesguy probably laughed when someone haggled a base model v6 for an hour and he still made more than a mini. They can't give those things away. The EcoBoost is more desirable and the 5.0 is the one people actually want to buy.
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:08 PM   #67
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The salesguy probably laughed when someone haggled a base model v6 for an hour and he still made more than a mini. They can't give those things away. The EcoBoost is more desirable and the 5.0 is the one people actually want to buy.
My buddy bought his 2013 V6 after weeks researching and visiting dealers around New Jersey/New York. He came to a conclusion that $19k was the lowest multiple dealers could do (independently). But MSRP was $22k back then. Now 2017 V6 MSRP is $26k. Big difference.

The V6 was discontinued in 2017 and dealerships still have manual models camping their lots for months (and an unused 2016 which I just looked up). Ford heavily marketed the Ecoboost to survive the fuel economy wars. Ford's GT halo supercar was part of that. I prefer the 6-cyl sound and more instant linear low end torque (where I spend most of my daily driving). Mustang forum consensus says V6 is better than EB if you don't plan to mod (which I don't). Most Americans drive auto and the auto V6 was mainly for rental fleets so I took advantage of the manual V6 overstock which the EB and GT don't have.

On the haggling, got past the floor guy to the sales manager and made demands above his pay grade. He called in the GM for permissions on cost cutting *while I was still in the room*. I forced this transparency when stating I was on a short lunch break and planned to buy from other dealers that evening (showed them lower priced ads). And the GM knew I'd already been calling his dealer and the others asking $19k *over the phone* from all over the past week. Those pre-constraints left the GM no time/options to play games. We couldn't agree so I walked out... slowly... so the GM could stop me outside the exit and talk me back in. With MSRP knocked down to invoice and $750 "hold back fee" (normally paid by Ford to dealer on a sale) removed because I as a gov't employee applied for it through a federal gov't program (for all makes, not just Ford, nationwide), all profit that was left was $244 in commission if I finance through the dealer's financing partner network. I demanded the GM take that off which really pissed him off. Took it as personal as disrespect (clearly not a sales a tactic) because he walked out without talking (probably blood pressure as he was overweight) and left the room with awkward silence from the sales manager and a couple sales guys watching for entertainment (or to observe/learn?). I did the walk out test again but nobody called me back in. Few minutes later I came in to apologize to the GM and that I might be back that evening with a decision. Again, manual V6es were everywhere.

Dealers lose money on cars camped for months to years so I did them a favor to free up real estate for them to receive a more profitable car. Big profit on each car goes to Ford the manufacturer selling to dealer networks but in cases like months long discontinued cars, Ford will pass that profit to dealers in the form of rebates. I qualified for around $3000 of rebates so whatever profit the dealer made, it came from Ford corporate and not me.

I couldn't have done that with an Ecoboost. Why pay $5k more for the exact same stock performance and fuel costs (factoring in regular octane for V6 and premium for EB)? I'd go WRX for $25k. For cost of a 5.0? A Vette. But for $19k what else would you get? I could only find 4-cyl econocars so V6 Stang wins. Best value of all 3 Mustang trims.
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:12 PM   #68
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My buddy bought his 2013 V6 after weeks researching and visiting dealers around New Jersey/New York. He came to a conclusion that $19k was the lowest multiple dealers could do (independently). But MSRP was $22k back then. Now 2017 V6 MSRP is $26k. Big difference.

The V6 was discontinued in 2017 and dealerships still have manual models camping their lots for months (and an unused 2016 which I just looked up). Ford heavily marketed the Ecoboost to survive the fuel economy wars. Ford's GT halo supercar was part of that. I prefer the 6-cyl sound and more instant linear low end torque (where I spend most of my daily driving). Mustang forum consensus says V6 is better than EB if you don't plan to mod (which I don't). Most Americans drive auto and the auto V6 was mainly for rental fleets so I took advantage of the manual V6 overstock which the EB and GT don't have.

On the haggling, I quickly got past the floor guy and made demands from the sales manager that were above his pay grade. He called in the GM for permissions on cost costs *while I was still in the room*. We couldn't agree so I walked out... slowly... so the GM could stop me outside the exit and talk me back in. With MSRP knocked down to invoice and $750 "hold back fee" (normally paid by Ford to dealer on a sale) removed because I as a gov't employee applied for it through a federal gov't program (for all makes, not just Ford, nationwide), all profit that was left was $244 in commission if I finance through the dealer's financing partner network. I demanded the GM take that off which really pissed him off. Took it as personal as disrespect (clearly not a sales a tactic) because he walked out without talking (probably blood pressure as he was overweight) and left the room with awkward silence from the sales manager and a couple sales guys watching for entertainment (or to observe/learn?). I did the walk out test again but nobody called me back in. Few minutes later I came in to apologize to the GM and that I might be back that evening with a decision. It helped stating I was on a short lunch break and planned to buy from other dealers that evening (showed them lower priced ads) if we couldn't close a deal. Again, manual V6es were everywhere. My double constraints left the GM no time to run me for a loop.

Dealers lose money on cars camped for months to years so I did them a favor to free up real estate for them to receive a more profitable car. Big profit on each car goes to Ford the manufacturer selling to dealer networks but in cases like months long discontinued cars, Ford will pass that profit to dealers in the form of rebates. I qualified for around $3000 of rebates so whatever profit the dealer made, it came from Ford corporate and not me.

I couldn't have done that with an Ecoboost. Why pay $5k more for the exact same stock performance and fuel costs (factoring in regular octane for V6 and premium for EB)? I'd go WRX for $25k. For cost of a 5.0? A Vette. But for $19k what else would you get? I could only find 4-cyl econocars so V6 Stang wins. Best value of all 3 Mustang trims.
Tl;dr
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:21 PM   #69
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Tl;dr
In terms of value per price point:

WRX > Ecoboost
Vette > 5.0
V6 > all (identical to EB performance for $5k less)

V6 = best bang-for-buck of all Mustangs
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:32 PM   #70
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In terms of value per price point:

WRX > Ecoboost
Vette > 5.0
V6 > all (identical to EB performance for $5k less)

V6 = best bang-for-buck of all Mustangs
but.... it's a v6 mustang. The secretary special. Rental car extraordinare.
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