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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 02-02-2018, 11:26 AM   #99
Ashikabi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyW View Post
It seems that there are trade offs with or without a wing. The increased drag via added downforce has to have an effect on end of straight speed while increasing corner exit speed so I'm sure that the benefits\detriments will be track dependent?
I'm confident the race teams aren't using aero for the looks. So since I'm not a scientist or engineer, I'll just assume they know what they are doing
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:21 PM   #100
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The wing is looking great, what is the width of it? And will the trunk still open with the wing on?
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:00 PM   #101
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My BRZ has more than 400hp and I need that wing. Fast. Don't care about A or B. If one option works better I prefer the better one.
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Old 02-03-2018, 07:06 PM   #102
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I personally prefer A and would purchase this if it were available today. I need to purchase the pivot fork anyways.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:41 AM   #103
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We will be printing out the two uprights and test fitting on the back of the shop BRZ. We have already done this but my choice of a purple upright after we ran out of black filament is being called out for swaying opinion; so I ordered more black filament and we will reprint.

Trunk opening: Yes, the trunk opens without an issue. We will take a picture of this as well.

Performance Difference between A and B: There is no performance difference between A and B. They weigh roughly the same and with FEA we can make both handle the load. They do not change the performance of the wing.

Quote:
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A wing on a 200 hp car is just stupid. Do you people realize this?
I'm not sure what makes you say that? We opted to go this route for this car specifically because the car does not produce a ton of power from the factory. The wing is extremely efficient in low angles of attack, which allows a moderate bump in downforce with minimal drag impact. Drag is what will slow the car down in the straights, which is what we wanted to reduce as much as possible. This is why we spent so much time using ANSYS' optimization software for the airfoil shape.

To help you understand what we are talking about, in terms of hp used at high-end speeds, let us grab some data from the graph and put them through an equation to estimate how much additional HP it would take to push the car through the additional drag.

If we were to install the wing at maximum AOA (~12 degrees), at 100 MPH, the vehicle will be seeing an additional 18 lbs of drag. Compared to a vehicle without a wing, the car with a wing would need 3.36 more HP to sustain 100 MPH. Keep in mind you'd have an additional 140 lbs of downforce at this same MPH, which would hopefully be helping you in the corners. At 120MPH, the wing'd car would need 5.67 more HP, and at 140MPH, 9.02 more HP. This is when the wing is least efficient as well and it still doesn't require more than 10HP vs. a vehicle without a wing!

Let us look at the data when the wing is at 0 degrees. At 100 MPH, the wing'd car would need an addition .97 HP to overcome the drag, at 120MPH, 1.68 HP, and at 140MPH, 2.85 HP.

Hope that helps a bit. Obviously, we aren't saying everyone needs our wing or any wing for that matter. We felt there was a void in the market in that there was not a wing that would do what ours does. Most wings available are quite a bit larger, produce a lot more downforce and drag, which we feel the FRS/BRZ/GT86 does not need for the typical track day enthusiast. That was our personal goal for the wing, to fill in the gap between no wing, and the GT wings that are readily available.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:49 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VerusEric View Post
We will be printing out the two uprights and test fitting on the back of the shop BRZ. We have already done this but my choice of a purple upright after we ran out of black filament is being called out for swaying opinion; so I ordered more black filament and we will reprint.

Trunk opening: Yes, the trunk opens without an issue. We will take a picture of this as well.

Performance Difference between A and B: There is no performance difference between A and B. They weigh roughly the same and with FEA we can make both handle the load. They do not change the performance of the wing.



I'm not sure what makes you say that? We opted to go this route for this car specifically because the car does not produce a ton of power from the factory. The wing is extremely efficient in low angles of attack, which allows a moderate bump in downforce with minimal drag impact. Drag is what will slow the car down in the straights, which is what we wanted to reduce as much as possible. This is why we spent so much time using ANSYS' optimization software for the airfoil shape.

To help you understand what we are talking about, in terms of hp used at high-end speeds, let us grab some data from the graph and put them through an equation to estimate how much additional HP it would take to push the car through the additional drag.

If we were to install the wing at maximum AOA (~12 degrees), at 100 MPH, the vehicle will be seeing an additional 18 lbs of drag. Compared to a vehicle without a wing, the car with a wing would need 3.36 more HP to sustain 100 MPH. Keep in mind you'd have an additional 140 lbs of downforce at this same MPH, which would hopefully be helping you in the corners. At 120MPH, the wing'd car would need 5.67 more HP, and at 140MPH, 9.02 more HP. This is when the wing is least efficient as well and it still doesn't require more than 10HP vs. a vehicle without a wing!

Let us look at the data when the wing is at 0 degrees. At 100 MPH, the wing'd car would need an addition .97 HP to overcome the drag, at 120MPH, 1.68 HP, and at 140MPH, 2.85 HP.

Hope that helps a bit. Obviously, we aren't saying everyone needs our wing or any wing for that matter. We felt there was a void in the market in that there was not a wing that would do what ours does. Most wings available are quite a bit larger, produce a lot more downforce and drag, which we feel the FRS/BRZ/GT86 does not need for the typical track day enthusiast. That was our personal goal for the wing, to fill in the gap between no wing, and the GT wings that are readily available.

Thanks,
Eric
Well said
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:09 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VerusEric View Post
We will be printing out the two uprights and test fitting on the back of the shop BRZ. We have already done this but my choice of a purple upright after we ran out of black filament is being called out for swaying opinion; so I ordered more black filament and we will reprint.

Trunk opening: Yes, the trunk opens without an issue. We will take a picture of this as well.

Performance Difference between A and B: There is no performance difference between A and B. They weigh roughly the same and with FEA we can make both handle the load. They do not change the performance of the wing.



I'm not sure what makes you say that? We opted to go this route for this car specifically because the car does not produce a ton of power from the factory. The wing is extremely efficient in low angles of attack, which allows a moderate bump in downforce with minimal drag impact. Drag is what will slow the car down in the straights, which is what we wanted to reduce as much as possible. This is why we spent so much time using ANSYS' optimization software for the airfoil shape.

To help you understand what we are talking about, in terms of hp used at high-end speeds, let us grab some data from the graph and put them through an equation to estimate how much additional HP it would take to push the car through the additional drag.

If we were to install the wing at maximum AOA (~12 degrees), at 100 MPH, the vehicle will be seeing an additional 18 lbs of drag. Compared to a vehicle without a wing, the car with a wing would need 3.36 more HP to sustain 100 MPH. Keep in mind you'd have an additional 140 lbs of downforce at this same MPH, which would hopefully be helping you in the corners. At 120MPH, the wing'd car would need 5.67 more HP, and at 140MPH, 9.02 more HP. This is when the wing is least efficient as well and it still doesn't require more than 10HP vs. a vehicle without a wing!

Let us look at the data when the wing is at 0 degrees. At 100 MPH, the wing'd car would need an addition .97 HP to overcome the drag, at 120MPH, 1.68 HP, and at 140MPH, 2.85 HP.

Hope that helps a bit. Obviously, we aren't saying everyone needs our wing or any wing for that matter. We felt there was a void in the market in that there was not a wing that would do what ours does. Most wings available are quite a bit larger, produce a lot more downforce and drag, which we feel the FRS/BRZ/GT86 does not need for the typical track day enthusiast. That was our personal goal for the wing, to fill in the gap between no wing, and the GT wings that are readily available.

Thanks,
Eric
Awesome info very informative. Yes sounds like a good compromise from the over sized wings most of these guys get that IMO do more harm than good most of the time. Now go make some front aero that balances out the rear wing and that would be a great combo.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:10 AM   #106
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Awesome info very informative. Yes sounds like a good compromise from the over sized wins most of these guys get that IMO do more harm than good most of the time. Now go make some front aero that balances out the rear wing and that would be a great combo.
They already did. The wing is to balance out the front aero
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:22 AM   #107
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Quote:
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They already did. The wing is to balance out the front aero
Good to know. I guess the added downforce at the rear doesn't cause understeer with the front being stock since it's not adding much downforce?
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:27 AM   #108
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Good to know. I guess the added downforce at the rear doesn't cause understeer with the front being stock since it's not adding much downforce?
Couldn't tell you on that. Might be best to run it at the lower angle unless you have the splitter/end plates/dive planes too. Im not an expert so that may be a good question for Eric
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:40 PM   #109
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This is a great video

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Old 02-04-2018, 06:15 PM   #110
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Anticipation 🤑

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:37 PM   #111
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Excellent post sir
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:19 PM   #112
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release date and pricing? ready to spend my tax return...
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