Need For Speed... Really?

[Texas BRZ]

Hello everybody,

Sorry for creating yet another thread in a short amount of time after my other one.

I'm truly faced with a dilemma.

Truth is that I love to drive fast, just like every other person on this sub-forum. I'm looking at stepping up in modifications for my FR-S, only because my skill level is progressing, and I am very appreciative of this.

I had the goal of stepping myself up to better tires to help me keep more appropriate pace with more Advanced level cars (not drivers, in this case). For the past few months, I was planning... Yet now I've come to a point where I am hesitating on whether or not it's still about speed for me.

I value my time and effort for what I recieve in return more than ever. And myself being faster than the next person has become out of the equation lately. DE events were never about that, though.

See, I've really changed since the time I attended my first DE event about 3 years ago. I really and truly struggled with a higher-powered car, and I didn't want to return to tracking a car for some time after that... Until I realized that I had to face my weaknesses, and to continue to live the passion that I craved after.

So, the point I'm trying very hard to get to is that my heart is split between upgrading to much higher-performing tires, or to buy another forum member's 'Prius tires', which I've been truly impressed and happy with. Happy, not for the lack of grip and performance, but because I have become so damn addicted to how the tires have made me appreciate myself as a driver, as a student... And how capable I can be.

I don't feel the upgrade to better tires as cheating myself. I feel that I'm truly deserving for the speed and grip to be benefited with... I'm no longer a Novice. I'm no longer an Intermediate, I honestly feel. My mind and comfort zone are ready for a higher level of driving, but I don't think that truly has to come along with the desire for speed.

The wear and tear on the OEM Michelin Primacy tires is surprisingly not as bad as I expected, and still half the life of the tire left after so many two-day events. Yes, I'm driving the tires limit, consistently. I'm not abusing the tires, but I'm driving them and letting them work naturally with what Tada-San had probably intended.

It's an awkward situation which will likely not be brought up by many forum members.

You can call me pathetic and that I have lost my mind... But perhaps these so called, 'Prius tires' bring clarity to what this car is about.

I respect that every individual will have their very own definition of driving nirvana, perhaps this is mine?

Open to any advice and thoughts, as always...

Moderators: If I may kindly seek permission to leave this thread in this particular sub-forum because of the track / DE related nature, if you all wouldn't mind.

Much appreciation to all.

[Dave-ROR]

Upgrade tires if you feel they are holding you back (ie you have reached the maximum ability of the OEM tires with control, it's easy to pass the maximum ability but holding it at the edge is the harder part) and if you want quicker lap times.

With experience will come the desire for stickier tires. Higher limits present new challenges to face and learn from.

[CSG Mike]

Do 1 more event. Attach GoPro cameras to each fender, behind each front wheel. Are you getting as close to the edges as you can during entry setup, apexing, and track out?

A great benchmark is: Are you able to keep up with the faster Spec Miata drivers? The stock FR-S/BRZ is just a hair slower than a faster SM driver.


While stickier tires will make you faster, it won't improve you as a driver; that is completely up to you.

[Dave-ROR]

Fast SM drivers do DEs there? I live in the state of GT3/GT3RS DEs with the occassional other random car thrown in

The only SM I've seen at the track lately during a DE (which was at AMP where I've never been, had not-so-great lines, etc) I had no issues getting by so I'm sure he wasn't one of the fast drivers

[CSG Mike]

All the time... especially for test & tune and/or breaking in new setups.

I could theoretically do a DE 52 weekends a year here... SoCal™

We're not dominated by one DE group (Chin I believe in Florida?) that requires exorbitant safety equipment. (IMO, a S2k driver who legitimately passes broomstick with the factory equipment should be allowed on track without a rollbar, and thats how SoCal DE is operated)

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

All the time... especially for test & tune and/or breaking in new setups.

I could theoretically do a DE 52 weekends a year here... SoCal™

We're not dominated by one DE group (Chin I believe in Florida?) that requires exorbitant safety equipment. (IMO, a S2k driver who legitimately passes broomstick with the factory equipment should be allowed on track without a rollbar, and thats how SoCal DE is operated)

We take August off in Florida, too hot

It's pretty rare to see a SM here at a DE - at least with Chin and PCA.

For DE groups here, Chin is big. I prefer PCA. Slower P-Car guys so I can pass people. Chin is just pointing people by 99% of the time since I can't keep up with GT3s on Hoosiers. Maybe if I ran in Novice I could lol

There are multiple other groups.. NASA, PBOC, SAFE, and at least 2 more whose names I can't remember right now.

Chin's tech is a joke. They don't inspect anything. PCA is a lot more strict, PBOC even more so. NASA.. hmm they might make sure you have a car.. maybe... SAFE is more like old-school Chin. I need to run with them but the date's haven't worked out yet.

My own events are VERY strict on safety, but broomstick test with factory (if it's available) is ok. Some tracks have a rule that roadsters/convertibles require a rollbar though. VIR is one I have some personal experience with requiring that.

[Dave-ROR]

Had to edit my reply since you edited your post

[Texas BRZ]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Upgrade tires if you feel they are holding you back (ie you have reached the maximum ability of the OEM tires with control, it's easy to pass the maximum ability but holding it at the edge is the harder part) and if you want quicker lap times.

With experience will come the desire for stickier tires. Higher limits present new challenges to face and learn from.

Holding me back speed wise, then yes, they are... And I feel that I am managing and controlling them at and very close to the tires limit consistently, and perhaps getting a very good understanding of keeping them at that very edge... And then over that edge at times, and then back down a bit... And so forth. Consistently pushing them throughout the entirety of each 25 minute session is how I mean to present myself.

I am struggling more so, and have to push the car harder to keep building upon my speed within my run level. I don't see much issue with struggling, but other drivers in my level can see how I'm losing traction constantly while pushing so hard to keep up with their extreme-performance and R Compound tires.

[CSG Mike]

I'd get kicked out of a POC/PCA event so fast if I went to one here... they teach driving safe, but not fast.

Originally Posted by Texas FR-S

Holding me back speed wise, then yes, they are... And I feel that I am managing and controlling them at and very close to the tires limit consistently, and perhaps getting a very good understanding of keeping them at that very edge... And then over that edge at times, and then back down a bit... And so forth. Consistently pushing them throughout the entirety of each 25 minute session is how I mean to present myself.

I am struggling more so, and have to push the car harder to keep building upon my speed within my run level. I don't see much issue with struggling, but other drivers in my level can see how I'm losing traction constantly while pushing so hard to keep up with their extreme-performance and R Compound tires.

Sounds like the tires are at the edge. My question is, is the car at the edge?

Do you have any datalogging that I can look at?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'd get kicked out of a POC/PCA event so fast if I went to one here... they teach driving safe, but not fast.

Ha you are correct. I give people space at DEs though so it doesn't bother me. I ran with them for the first time ever recently so they put me with an instructor. Luckily that instructor races and didn't try to convert me to the PCA "proper" driving style. He's also a BRZ owner and member on here.. Got signed off and realized solo there wasn't much different from the novice group.

[Racecomp Engineering]

How many events have you done? Overall and with the FRS.

I'm a big proponent of not jumping into a sticky tire until you're ready, but it sounds like you might be there. A good extreme summer tire (star specs or etc) would be the next step. At that point though you'll start thinking about at least brake upgrades if you haven't already.

- Andrew

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

How many events have you done? Overall and with the FRS.

I'm a big proponent of not jumping into a sticky tire until you're ready, but it sounds like you might be there. A good extreme summer tire (star specs or etc) would be the next step. At that point though you'll start thinking about at least brake upgrades if you haven't already.

- Andrew

I kind of assumed that's what he meant.

I don't see the need for R comps in DE's anymore. The great summer tires are so good than the cost isn't as easily justified as it was 10 years ago. I don't bother with R comps in DEs and doubt I ever will again.

[SubieNate]

Is there any room for the Max Performance level tires at the track as a step between the Prius tires and RS3/Starspec/RE11 level? Something like the ExtremeContact DW. Or do they overheat too easily at the track?

Nathan

[Kido1986]

For an inbetween tire, @SubieNate , look at the Hankook V12. Fairly cheap and they work very well if you dont want to move to such an aggressive tire as the SS/RS3/RE11