Injector / seal failure or Miss-fire codes.. please post here

[vtmike]

This might push me to finally buy a tune if Toyota is going to drag their feet on this, or have the mentality to let it break first instead of a preemptive fix.

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[Opie]

So much to cover...

As with any "issue" these issues do not affect every car. So just because you see something listed on this, or any other site. Don't assume your car has the same problem.

If you are having any unusual symptoms, take it to dealer and have it diagnosed, be as specific as possible when describing the concern and let them know how/when it occurs so they can duplicate the concern. If you have a CEL, DO NOT ERASE OR CLEAR IT!! When a code is stored it also saves all of the ECM data when the fault occurred. In order to diagnose the car correctly the tech needs to see that data, if you clear it...there is no data to him/her to check. Do not get frustrated if they cannot duplicate the concern, just understand that they have to duplicate it to confirm the problem actually exists and diagnose it properly. If they just start doing things blindly a resolution will be harder to accomplish.

Regarding ECM re-flashes, there is currently a re-flash available for the BRZ. Problem is, due to EPA regulations/oversight, every re-flash usually only lists a fix for one specific problem, when in reality it fixes several different issues. For example, when a tech calls SOA's Tech-Line for a running concern the first thing Tech-Line asks the tech is if the latest ECM updates have been performed, if the tech says "No", they are usually advised to perform the re-flash and then re-test to see if the concern still exists, regardless of what the re-flash says it fixes.

The TSB for the latest BRZ ECM Re-flash is #02-138-12, my guess is that all the latest and greatest ECM tweaks are already in that flash. Any new ones that come out will be in the next flash, whenever that may come out.

The TSB for the difficulty starting, rough idle & cam position or misfire DTC's is #11-130-13

My guess is one, or both of these will address the concerns some of you have listed here.

Hope this helps.

P.S. All the info I provide relates to the Subaru BRZ, I do not have access to any info regarding the FR-S

[vtmike]

So are you saying not every car up shifted at redline at wot from 3rd to 4th, and 4th to 5th when shifted in less than 0.6 seconds and kept at full throttle after shift (as described by the findings) will have detonation occur.

Or, not everyone drives this way so it won't effect every car?

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[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by vtmike

So are you saying not every car up shifted at redline at wot from 3rd to 4th, and 4th to 5th when shifted in less than 0.6 seconds and kept at full throttle after shift (as described by the findings) will have detonation occur.

Or, not everyone drives this way so it won't effect every car?

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He's saying the bolded part.

[vtmike]

I also wonder how many different ecu software versions there are on cars that haven't been reflashed by the dealer. So is an early car with the original ecu software more at risk of this vs a car that had a reflash for some reason or later build date car with more recent ecu software.

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[Opie]

I would say an earlier car that never had a reflash was at greater risk for the possibility of this problem to occur. As updates are released they are programmed into new car builds.

[vtmike]

Originally Posted by Opie

I would say an earlier car that never had a reflash was at greater risk for the possibility of this problem to occur. As updates are released they are programmed into new car builds.

That sucks for me. Really early car with no ecu updates. Thinking my only chance of an update without having something break is a tune now.

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[vtmike]

Maybe I found a way. My car falls under the drl tsb ecu replacement. If I have this done, does it mean the ecu will come with the most current ecu software.?

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[Opie]

Originally Posted by vtmike

Maybe I found a way. My car falls under the drl tsb ecu replacement. If I have this done, does it mean the ecu will come with the most current ecu software.?

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Yes.

[vtmike]

Just curious to know this. The ecu between the cars is the same, so if a subaru or Scion dealer orders one are they coming from the same place all with the same software? Or, is there any kind of flashing happening at the dealer once it arrives so a frs might end up with different software than a brz when having the ecu swapped out?

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[mad_sb]

I want to thank @epifan for sharing the changes with me. This info comes from the JDM rom. Right now he is waiting on some more of the BRZedit pro users to send in updated roms from other regions.

From what he shared with me, the only thing that is changed by the seal failure update is the transient ignition retard table and activation rpm. At least that is all that has been found so far.

Transient Retard is retarding ignition timing during quick throttle lift (like fast shifting). Stock, TR is not enabled over 5,000 rpm and even if it were the table is zeroed out above 4000 RPM. The new software just moves the deactivation point up to 10,000 RPM and fills in table values above 5600 rpm.

I would also like to thank @DrSUTRA for posting up the pics and documentation about the update.

I Think this update needs to be pushed to ALL cars. The simple fact is, with the transient retard setup like it is from the factory, there is the potential for ALL cars to have this problem at one time or another. All it takes is a bad tank of gas. Now, how many det events does it take to burn out the seal... that is another question.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

That last part pisses me off to no end, So running the car up to the factory rev limiter and shifting gears is considered aggressive track driving... sounds like they intend on F'ing people out of the warranty repair of the seals.

Well, I know with Subaru, their own BRZ brochure kinda screws them out of denying warranty for aggressive driving.

Here is the excerpt from the very first paragraph you see in the sales brochure....

"Life moves fast. Don’t slow it down with a car you can’t trust. At Subaru, we build each of our vehicles with the highest standards of manufacturing, and with designs that are inherently tough and resilient. It’s why our vehicles excel in the most rigorous of motorsports, like rally racing. And why 96% of all the vehicles we’ve built in the last 12 years are still on the road today. It’s also why Subaru owners are so likely to stay Subaru owners for years and years. What’s more, keeping cars on the road means they stay out of landfills longer. And if we can help make the world a cleaner and greener place while making cars that inspire and motivate their drivers, we’ve done our job."

Sorry Subaru, you can't sell someone a machine that you market as reliable high performance, and then deny warranty when the customer uses said performance.

[mad_sb]

LOL, do you remember the mitsubishi commercials back in 2003 that featured rally prepped Evo VIII's blasting through rally stages? They still denied claims based on autocross / track usage / abusive driving.

Just saying, marketing and warranty are two different departments

Originally Posted by 2forme

Well, I know with Subaru, their own BRZ brochure kinda screws them out of denying warranty for aggressive driving.

Here is the excerpt from the very first paragraph you see in the sales brochure....

"Life moves fast. Don’t slow it down with a car you can’t trust. At Subaru, we build each of our vehicles with the highest standards of manufacturing, and with designs that are inherently tough and resilient. It’s why our vehicles excel in the most rigorous of motorsports, like rally racing. And why 96% of all the vehicles we’ve built in the last 12 years are still on the road today. It’s also why Subaru owners are so likely to stay Subaru owners for years and years. What’s more, keeping cars on the road means they stay out of landfills longer. And if we can help make the world a cleaner and greener place while making cars that inspire and motivate their drivers, we’ve done our job."

Sorry Subaru, you can't sell someone a machine that you market as reliable high performance, and then deny warranty when the customer uses said performance.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

LOL, do you remember the mitsubishi commercials back in 2003 that featured rally prepped Evo VIII's blasting through rally stages? They still denied claims based on autocross / track usage / abusive driving.

Just saying, marketing and warranty are two different departments

I wish customers had more balls to hire a lawyer. The automaker would get owned in court with stuff like that.