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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 06-18-2013, 11:42 AM   #309
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I just read through all 14 pages... good luck to all of you who've had this problem. But If you haven't had any symptons/issues of misfiring at this point (I'm up to 23K miles), you've got nothing to worry about right? I got an updated rom file from my tuner that's suppose to help prevent this issue, but how much help is it really at this point?
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:02 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjohnx View Post
two kinds of DI's?

Hmm, i checked the subaru parts catalog and see 3 part #'s listed for the "front" injector, with descriptions of Mark 1, Mark 2 and Mark 3 (Part #'s 16611JB010, 16611JB020 and 16611JB030 respectively.) I wonder if that's why we're seeing some cars have more issues than others? This is all assuming that the "Front" injector is the direct injector, hard to tell since there is no diagram, but it is the more expensive of the two.

http://www.buysubarupartsnow.com/par...fuel-injection

Those are correct, the problem is you need to pull the injectors to find the right stratified number. Which means you also have to replace two of the fuel delivery pipes and intake manifold gaskets and throttle body gaskets just to look at it to order the right ones. (According to Service Manual) Total pain in the ass.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:33 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
I just read through all 14 pages... good luck to all of you who've had this problem. But If you haven't had any symptons/issues of misfiring at this point (I'm up to 23K miles), you've got nothing to worry about right? I got an updated rom file from my tuner that's suppose to help prevent this issue, but how much help is it really at this point?
Only time will really tell, but I would certainly feel much more comfortable revving her out again with the fix on my ECU.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:43 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjohnx View Post
i'm getting some slight popping when rev matching on shifts.definitely sounds like it's coming from the exhaust though. Running nameless overpipe/downpipe/hfc and nameless axleback. Stock ECU now.

I'm assuming it is unrelated, but can anyone ease my nerves and confirm?

I get this a lot when rev matching or blipping the shift down with the automatic. from 3rd to 2nd driving aggressively or 2nd to 1st. Been getting that since last summer when I was completely stock.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:44 PM   #313
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I just changed the coil and plug in number 1 cylinder.

No check engine light yet, and it seems to pull better up top without breaking up.

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Last edited by Simmons; 06-18-2013 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:27 PM   #314
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I remember talking about this issue almost a year ago when ECU tuning for this car was still in its infancy. Specifically, concern over DI temps at WOT. Is arghx7 still lurking in here somewhere? I hardly ever check this board much anymore.

Quote:

I've been lurking in this thread for awhile now and had some ideas about the
torque dip...

Taken from the 2006 study of Toyota's development on the
D-4S system for the 2GR-FSE
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3868&stc=1&d=132605279
1



4.4 FINAL INJECTION STRATEGY ADOPTED FOR
PRODUCTION
VEHICLES
The final strategy of D-4S system for introduction to

production now will be discussed. Simultaneous injection
is utilized to
optimize combustion at lower engine
speeds. The mixture formation using 100%
DI at higher
engine speeds is sufficiently homogeneous and
combustion
efficiency is at a level comparable to
simultaneous injection due to the
piston speeds. For this
reason simultaneous injection is not required at
higher
engine speeds. Another consideration when
simultaneous injection
is utilized at higher engine
speeds, the injector-tip temperature of the DI
injector
becomes too high promoting injector deposits and
degrading the
durability of the injector. According to the
research [9], a DI injector has
issues when the injectortip
temperature reaches approximately 150°C. For
this
reason utilization of simultaneous injection is limited.
Figure 16
shows the DI ratio of the utilization area for
simultaneous
injection.

I'd imagine this is the reason for the torque dip at ~3400
RPMs. I.E. cyclinder temps are getting dangerously close to that 150C threshold
with both injectors running full load at that engine speed. Rather than flirt
with premature direct injector (DI) failure, the engineers chose to shutoff the
port injectors a bit sooner than would be optimal. Raising the RPM limit where
they scale back should take care of the torque dip but DI longevity will more
than likely suffer. To what degree, who knows.





Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Well, that article was written about the earlier Toyota V6 engine, the 2GR-FSE. On that engine, the port injectors shut off before the torque dip occurs. The torque dip occurs as the cam phasing (and resulting overlap) ramps down.

On the FA20, based only on the graph I've seen from the FR-S service manual, the port injection comes back right near redline. This implies several things:

1) for whatever reason, on a stock FA20 engine the direct injector tip temperature is within specification to achieve durability targets. They figured out how to keep the injector from overheating even with port injection at high rpm.

2) the addition of port injection at high rpm is most likely to provide additional fuel because the direct injectors either can't supply it or are better off not doing so

There could be constraints in direct injection timing, direct injector flow rates, or fuel pressure. As the injection pulsewidth lengthens on any injection system, by definition you are moving your start-of-injection and/or end-of-injection timing. With port injection you have much longer time for mixture formation; it's all going to end up on the back of the valve anyway, at least for conventional strategies. With direct injection, as you lengthen the pulsewidth you can have mixture formation problems or problems with piston and valve wetting. This leads to smoke, particulate emissions, and oil dilution.

Last edited by AkaJabari; 06-18-2013 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Added info
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:07 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitefrs View Post
This is what exactly happen to me
Hopefully the electrode didnt cause any damage

They will use a boroscope today to ckeck the internals
Attachment 40814
I'm confused. in the other thread you said the tech said the plugs were fine:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=102
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:27 PM   #316
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subaru updated their misfire TSB today. i'm not sure if it could be relavent or not, but if you're interested i posted it over here (posts 241-242): http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=36129&page=11
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:30 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaJabari View Post
I remember talking about this issue almost a year ago when ECU tuning for this car was still in its infancy. Specifically, concern over DI temps at WOT. Is arghx7 still lurking in here somewhere? I hardly ever check this board much anymore.
@arghx7 does still lurk.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:41 PM   #318
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I'm still here. All I'll have to say is, direct injection has some additional durability challenges compared to PFI. I'm sure we'll sort through these in the next year or two; it's normal for a new platform.

A year ago I was just very concerned that people were all like "dude don't worry about it, it'll be fine, just install this part or use that tune and I promise nothing major will go wrong." When new mods are being developed on a new vehicle platform lots of stuff goes wrong. Don't be overly optimistic before trying a new mod and don't be overly pessimistic ("Screw Subaru, this thing is a piece of junk" mentality) when things start going wrong either.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:42 AM   #319
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First I replaced my coils because Subaru wouldn't.
Next I replaced my DI seals because Subaru wouldn't.
Today I pulled my cylinder #1 plug and found this fouled mess.
I'll be tossing it as well.


Last edited by romin; 06-23-2013 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:03 AM   #320
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Many RX-8 guys replace the stock coils with aftermarket coils (a coil kit based on GMC Yukon coils).
Maybe someone will eventually offer an aftermarket coil kit for this car too.
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:25 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_sb View Post
I'm confused. in the other thread you said the tech said the plugs were fine:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=102
Just read this lol
Apparently he didnt check them lol
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:22 AM   #322
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Crap. I'm in the boat too. Wednesday on the track session I've got the P0351. No particular sound on start up or anything. Cleared it. Yesteday on my way to home I've floor it 3 to 4 WOT. Got it again...

Mods: Perrin EcuTek Flash - aFe Intake - Nameless Fontpipe/Axle back.

I hope the seals are ok
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