VCMC 350hp Turbo FR-S Review on Tuned

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

What would you be looking for specifically in a 'street version'?

If a car can hold up to track conditions (which the car in this video can't), it can hold up to any conditions on the street. Heat is the #1 enemy of any car at the track. It's a particular problem with turbocharged cars since they generate much more heat. The reason I sold my Evo was that I could not keep temperatures under control at the track, no matter what kind of cooling I threw at it. It's no fun when you can only do a few laps before a car overheats. That's when I learned that stock power, lightweight, and normally aspirated is the way to go if you're going to have a reliable track car. It looks like that turbo kit would be fine for the street, but not on the track...

Does not apply to every car nor the majority of them.

Originally Posted by Dezoris

20k and still not done. I get that it's a work in progress proof of concept, but that's absurd. What series are you going to run a car like that in?

None.

Global Time Attack.

[brewksy]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Global Time Attack.

What part of "None" don't you understand? Quit trying to fill our heads with this nonsense.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by brewksy

What part of "None" don't you understand? Quit trying to fill our heads with this nonsense.

I first read your message on my phone which didn't have the smiley face. I was about to go postal for a second until I came back to reply and see your smiley...lol

[Roadliner]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

What would you be looking for specifically in a 'street version'?

If a car can hold up to track conditions (which the car in this video can't), it can hold up to any conditions on the street. Heat is the #1 enemy of any car at the track. It's a particular problem with turbocharged cars since they generate much more heat. The reason I sold my Evo was that I could not keep temperatures under control at the track, no matter what kind of cooling I threw at it. It's no fun when you can only do a few laps before a car overheats. That's when I learned that stock power, lightweight, and normally aspirated is the way to go if you're going to have a reliable track car. It looks like that turbo kit would be fine for the street, but not on the track...

True, you certainly raised valid points there, but the stresses of street use are just as challenging.
Idling or creeping in slow traffic, no clear fresh air flowing through the radiators because of the close proximity of cars in front and all around, more bumps and road shocks transmitted through the car, varying quality of fuels from time to time, etc.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

ehh your on the right track..

they have effectively moved the powerband down the RPM scale with 9psi. omitting the low end scavenging at 3k the stock frs powerband starts around 5000rpm and peaks around 6800rpm. The FA20 revs more freely, and mating this with a lightweight flywheel will get you to the desirable powerband quicker.

with a quick spooling turbo at 9psi, your looking at a roughly 4k-7k powerband. Its not exactly narrow, its broader. But because its broader in this sense, you can get on power at a much quicker rate. Thats why the FRS feels more on and off.

Narrow powerbands typically take time to build. much like honda's and the FRS where the powerband is a very narrow window found in the upper range of the revboard.



What was unclear about the video to me was how the car experienced heat after 20 min. Which can be attributed to many things. Rad Heat soak from the turbo wasn't as apparent due to some obvious turbo blanketing, but i dont really know how effective they were at keeping ambient temps in control.

How were oil temps? how were intake temps? how were EGTs? how were water temps? how were engine bay temps, what are the provisions in place to aid heat exchange, are they obstructed?...to me these temperature readings are all important when building a track car.

They said open up the front air dam might work, IMO i think they should consider a radiator shroud instead, and shield the core from the turbo, and place a NACA hood ducts to feed fresh air into the turbine housing.

Heat shielding ftw.

So does that mean most race car throttles ARE designed for ON/OFF application? I am just confused because I always thought throttle control was a major part of what the difference was between a uneducated good driver and a veteran race car driver.

From my volunteering days at rally courses, they always told me throttle control coupled with left foot braking was one of the basic fundamentals for building a good driver but if it is just ON/OFF, then it is just timing no? Of course rally racing deals with much less traction than track cars usually do. In the course I worked at, there actually isn't a tarmac section. All gravel and dirt.

[gmookher]

Originally Posted by Frost

All gravel and dirt.

throttle modulation is key here...

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Roadliner

True, you certainly raised valid points there, but the stresses of street use are just as challenging.
Idling or creeping in slow traffic, no clear fresh air flowing through the radiators because of the close proximity of cars in front and all around, more bumps and road shocks transmitted through the car, varying quality of fuels from time to time, etc.

Yea...but still does not equate to the abuse from track use.

[FullBlown]

Thanks guys, the cooling system started heating up after 5 hard laps. Most of the guys on here who do not track their car that hard and will not see any issues with the OEM cooling system.

Lets keep in mind that we are doubling the engine's output and beating on it in the middle of the desert lol.

Anyways, this is why we jumped on board when asked to do this project, and here is the next product that we are working on.

[FullBlown]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Yea...but still does not equate to the abuse from track use.

Trust me, you wont have a problem on the streets unless you are in boost 90% of the time.

[AVOturboworld]

Originally Posted by Frost

Heat shielding ftw.

So does that mean most race car throttles ARE designed for ON/OFF application? I am just confused because I always thought throttle control was a major part of what the difference was between a uneducated good driver and a veteran race car driver.

From my volunteering days at rally courses, they always told me throttle control coupled with left foot braking was one of the basic fundamentals for building a good driver but if it is just ON/OFF, then it is just timing no? Of course rally racing deals with much less traction than track cars usually do. In the course I worked at, there actually isn't a tarmac section. All gravel and dirt.

Rally driving and tarmac driving are completely different. A rally car running in nearly any series is running a restrictor (because, yes, most of them are turbocharged). Tuning is concentrated on making torque as soon as possible since hp will be limited. Driving a rally car is different than tarmac, since you are driving sideways on purpose and using the throttle to pull yourself through the loose stuff.

Tarmac, ideally you are driving at the limits of, but not exceeding, adhesion. Entering corners is usually a case of slow in/fast out. Full throttle up to the braking point before the corner, braking at last possible moment, hitting the inner apex as fast as possible without upsetting the car, then getting on the gas as soon as possible. This may vary from driving style to driving style, but it's usually like this. Thus a race car throttle will appear much like an on/off switch, especially if they decided that that particular track, in that days particular conditions, demanded that.

However, something that feels on/off to a person that isn't a professional race driver may actually have quite a bit of modulation to somebody that is a professional race driver.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Does not apply to every car nor the majority of them.





Global Time Attack.

Global Time Attack is not a wheel to wheel event, it's a time trial running for best lap times, dominated by tuners with $$$.

They are not required to run a certain amount of laps, so reliability is not as large of an issue as it would be for wheel to wheel they just have to get in a few fast laps in qualifying and a few fast laps for final times.

I should re-phrase what events or series could you go and compete in, wheel to wheel. Not solo or time trial events?

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Frost

Heat shielding ftw.

So does that mean most race car throttles ARE designed for ON/OFF application? I am just confused because I always thought throttle control was a major part of what the difference was between a uneducated good driver and a veteran race car driver.

From my volunteering days at rally courses, they always told me throttle control coupled with left foot braking was one of the basic fundamentals for building a good driver but if it is just ON/OFF, then it is just timing no? Of course rally racing deals with much less traction than track cars usually do. In the course I worked at, there actually isn't a tarmac section. All gravel and dirt.

Not all racecars are like this, in fact some of the best racecars have a much linear powerband that takes throttle control. But in regards to this car, its not exactly on/off switch like you would imagine.

It feels like an on/off switch on the turbo FRS because of how the engine responds to throttle input. Very small throttle adjustments on some cars make the engine come alive. Iv been in a miata with a 2jz with small responsive turbos and that thing felt like on and off switch. Its all about the tuning.

The throttle feathering is probably the most natural thing to use when trying to control a car with that kind of throttle response. Its still a form of throttle control. Although id avoid using a feathering technique when on gravel or rally..that kinda scares me a bit. id prefer a smoother powerband so i can keep the throttle on through corners.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by FullBlown

Trust me, you wont have a problem on the streets unless you are in boost 90% of the time.

I am sure you will get the heat issue under control. Obviously you are going to take "heat" on this video because, you have 20k into the car, it's gutted for track use and it has cooling issues. Saying its ok for street driving is funny as it's not a street car, it was designed for the track.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by FullBlown

Thanks guys, the cooling system started heating up after 5 hard laps. Most of the guys on here who do not track their car that hard and will not see any issues with the OEM cooling system.

Lets keep in mind that we are doubling the engine's output and beating on it in the middle of the desert lol.

Anyways, this is why we jumped on board when asked to do this project, and here is the next product that we are working on.

looking hot..RAWR!! What kind of water temp readings were you getting at your runs that led you to make a new rad? Did your cool down periods help any?