Rotary Extinction??? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Rotarydisciple · 12-14-2009, 08:48 PM

At October's Tokyo Motor Show, Mazda highlighted its next generation Sky Series of powertrains, proof that the Japanese automaker sees a long future for gasoline and diesel engines. Its press department also spent a brief moment mentioning the Kiyora concept car as well as something we've seen before -- a dual-fueled Premacy hybrid minivan powered by a rotary engine that can run on hydrogen fuel.

Click to view Gallery

The 1995 Mazda RX-7

What was conspicuously absent from the stand however, was a planned sports car concept fitted with an updated version of Mazda's next-generation, gas-powered rotary, codenamed the 16X. Of course, we are talking about the next generation RX-7 here. The current four-door RX-8 rotary is well-known for its less than satisfactory mileage, heavy oil consumption and flat mid-range torque, issues that engineers have been working to solve with the 16X for the next RX-7 (possibly called RX-9). The sketch you see here, which is one artist's impression of how the car could look, incorporates styling hints from the RX-8 and a grille design from recent swooping concept cars like the Kiyora. If built, the car is expected to lose around 220 lbs in weight over the RX-8 and gain the fuel-sipping i-stop system in addition to an electric assisted turbo.

Click to view Gallery

The 16X rotary prototype from...

read full caption

Click to view Gallery

The 16X rotary prototype from the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show

The Hiroshima-based company first revealed the 16X rotary prototype engine at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show, and at the time hinted that we could look forward to a special surprise at Tokyo in 2009. That didn't happen. In its "Sustainable Zoom-Zoom" announcement back in early 2007, we remember company bosses saying that a car powered by the next generation rotary engine would land in showrooms in late 2010. That won't happen, either. The economic downturn saw to that.
Mazda has been hit particularly hard by the worldwide recession. With global sales falling by nearly 19% this year, compared to the first 10 months of last year, and sales of the multiple award-winning MX-5 plummeting by over 26%, the company is not only losing profits and having to lay off workers, but is registering measurable dips in its brand identity. Fitted with the only current production rotary engine in the lineup, RX-8 figures have also dramatically dropped, causing concern not only amongst top management but hundreds of engineers -- many of whom joined the company wanting to work on the rotary.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2009/0912_mazda_rx_7_dilemma/index.html#ixzz0ZiZLPmT9

Rotarydisciple · 12-14-2009, 08:49 PM

I hope it comes to market. I had plans on buying both the Toyota and the Mazda when they come out.

GT · 12-14-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotarydisciple

I hope it comes to market. I had plans on buying both the Toyota and the Mazda when they come out.

But if the RX-7 is made, how much do you think it will cost (price range). Also this sketch doesn't look half bad.

EDIT: nvm I saw the price range in the motor trend article (they said around 28k)

MtnDrvr86 · 12-15-2009, 12:25 AM

I love reading comments on these articles. People was an RX with a turbo4...kinda defeates the whole RX thing...since, correct me if im wrong, it stands for rotary experiment.

I would love for mazda to keep on with the rotary program. Its always been something that seperates Mazda from others. If they keep the weight down and make it a cornering beast like the RX's of old then I think there would still be a decent market for it. Once people get their heads out the asses and relize that its not always about power and top speed/0-60 times.

Rotarydisciple · 12-15-2009, 07:59 AM

The cost will be around $27,000. In the article they also stated that it depends on how the new rear wheel drive Toybaru does in the market in 2011. I saved up my pennies and dimes and want to buy both of them. Hopefully I'll have that chance.

GT · 12-15-2009, 12:19 PM

I hope the rx-7 remake sees production (hopefully around 2012). If it does then it will be hard making the choice between the ft-86, rx-7 (rx-9?) and and the rumored 240sx.

Mouse · 12-18-2009, 01:37 PM

RX does stand for Rotary Experiment...To be honest I'd rather want to see Mazda build an RX-3 to compete with the FT-86 and rumored 240. As far as the RX-7/9 is concerned I think Mazda will really push the limit as far as performance on the next-gen. I'm thinking along the lines of the Furai with a 4-rotorary POWERplant screamer to go up against the GTR, Lexus, NSX.

I hope they would.

S2KtoFT86 · 12-18-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse

RX does stand for Rotary Experiment...To be honest I'd rather want to see Mazda build an RX-3 to compete with the FT-86 and rumored 240. As far as the RX-7/9 is concerned I think Mazda will really push the limit as far as performance on the next-gen. I'm thinking along the lines of the Furai with a 4-rotorary POWERplant screamer to go up against the GTR, Lexus, NSX.

I hope they would.

The NSX is no more. I assume when you say Lexus, you mean the IS-F and not the LF-A. Don't really know if that makes sense since the IS-F is a Sedan and I would assume that a new RX would be a coupe. Also, Mazda would want to put out a 80K+ vehicle to compete with the GTR? Maybe, but I doubt it.

OldSkoolToys · 12-18-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT

I hope the rx-7 remake sees production (hopefully around 2012). If it does then it will be hard making the choice between the ft-86, rx-7 (rx-9?) and and the rumored 240sx.

For some people I can see this being a hard decision.

For me its a no brainer.

Mouse · 12-18-2009, 04:34 PM

The NSX is rumored to be used in racing and yes I did mean the LF-A. The Furai with 4 screaming rotors naturally aspirated would be a nice addition to the Japanese Supercar market.

IS-F=Garbage

More on the Furai:

The Auditory orgy of the 4-rotor:

S2KtoFT86 · 12-18-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse

The NSX is rumored to be used in racing and yes I did mean the LF-A. The Furai with 4 screaming rotors naturally aspirated would be a nice addition to the Japanese Supercar market.

IS-F=Garbage

More on the Furai:

The Auditory orgy of the 4-rotor:

So then Mazda would then be creating a 350k+ supercar which would completely be the opposite of what the RX-7 and RX-8 were. I really doubt that. Why would a company make a production vehicle comparable to a racing vehicle? Don't think that'd fly.

WingsofWar · 12-18-2009, 06:05 PM

i get enough threads like this at rx7club rofl.

Some sources from mazda say that the next gen rotary is inevitable, as the wankle is literally mazda's baby. Its just the question "when is the right time?" truly giving problems in mazda's 10 year plan.

Ikeda, project designer for the 2011-2012 next gen RX has 2 confirmed sketches but he has to wait for the top execs to give the ok for a prototype.

The 16X has already been confirmed from mazda to be powerplant of choice for the next rotary platform

All other information is just speculation.

Mouse · 12-21-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S2KtoFT86

So then Mazda would then be creating a 350k+ supercar which would completely be the opposite of what the RX-7 and RX-8 were. I really doubt that. Why would a company make a production vehicle comparable to a racing vehicle? Don't think that'd fly.

Why did Toyota build the LF-A? Why did Nissan build the GT-R? The point is Mazda has nothing right now that competes with either of the two.

S2KtoFT86 · 12-21-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse

Why did Toyota build the LF-A? Why did Nissan build the GT-R? The point is Mazda has nothing right now that competes with either of the two.

Neither does Honda. And?

12-14-2009, 08:48 PM	#1
Rotarydisciple Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Drives: 2004 Mazda Rx8 Location: South Jersey Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Rotary Extinction??? At October's Tokyo Motor Show, Mazda highlighted its next generation Sky Series of powertrains, proof that the Japanese automaker sees a long future for gasoline and diesel engines. Its press department also spent a brief moment mentioning the Kiyora concept car as well as something we've seen before -- a dual-fueled Premacy hybrid minivan powered by a rotary engine that can run on hydrogen fuel. Click to view Gallery The 1995 Mazda RX-7 What was conspicuously absent from the stand however, was a planned sports car concept fitted with an updated version of Mazda's next-generation, gas-powered rotary, codenamed the 16X. Of course, we are talking about the next generation RX-7 here. The current four-door RX-8 rotary is well-known for its less than satisfactory mileage, heavy oil consumption and flat mid-range torque, issues that engineers have been working to solve with the 16X for the next RX-7 (possibly called RX-9). The sketch you see here, which is one artist's impression of how the car could look, incorporates styling hints from the RX-8 and a grille design from recent swooping concept cars like the Kiyora. If built, the car is expected to lose around 220 lbs in weight over the RX-8 and gain the fuel-sipping i-stop system in addition to an electric assisted turbo. Click to view Gallery The 16X rotary prototype from... read full caption Click to view Gallery The 16X rotary prototype from the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show The Hiroshima-based company first revealed the 16X rotary prototype engine at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show, and at the time hinted that we could look forward to a special surprise at Tokyo in 2009. That didn't happen. In its "Sustainable Zoom-Zoom" announcement back in early 2007, we remember company bosses saying that a car powered by the next generation rotary engine would land in showrooms in late 2010. That won't happen, either. The economic downturn saw to that. Mazda has been hit particularly hard by the worldwide recession. With global sales falling by nearly 19% this year, compared to the first 10 months of last year, and sales of the multiple award-winning MX-5 plummeting by over 26%, the company is not only losing profits and having to lay off workers, but is registering measurable dips in its brand identity. Fitted with the only current production rotary engine in the lineup, RX-8 figures have also dramatically dropped, causing concern not only amongst top management but hundreds of engineers -- many of whom joined the company wanting to work on the rotary. Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2009/0912_mazda_rx_7_dilemma/index.html#ixzz0ZiZLPmT9

12-15-2009, 12:19 PM	#6
GT Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: N/A Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 127 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I hope the rx-7 remake sees production (hopefully around 2012). If it does then it will be hard making the choice between the ft-86, rx-7 (rx-9?) and and the rumored 240sx. __________________

12-18-2009, 04:34 PM	#10
Mouse Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: Miata Location: Miami, Fl. Posts: 186 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The NSX is rumored to be used in racing and yes I did mean the LF-A. The Furai with 4 screaming rotors naturally aspirated would be a nice addition to the Japanese Supercar market. IS-F=Garbage More on the Furai: The Auditory orgy of the 4-rotor: Last edited by Mouse; 12-18-2009 at 04:49 PM.

12-18-2009, 06:05 PM	#12
WingsofWar MODERATOR-SAMA Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: Swagtron Scooter Location: Seattle Posts: 2,685 Thanks: 345 Thanked 1,561 Times in 524 Posts Mentioned: 81 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	i get enough threads like this at rx7club rofl. Some sources from mazda say that the next gen rotary is inevitable, as the wankle is literally mazda's baby. Its just the question "when is the right time?" truly giving problems in mazda's 10 year plan. Ikeda, project designer for the 2011-2012 next gen RX has 2 confirmed sketches but he has to wait for the top execs to give the ok for a prototype. The 16X has already been confirmed from mazda to be powerplant of choice for the next rotary platform All other information is just speculation. __________________

12-14-2009, 08:49 PM	#2
Rotarydisciple Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Drives: 2004 Mazda Rx8 Location: South Jersey Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I hope it comes to market. I had plans on buying both the Toyota and the Mazda when they come out.

12-15-2009, 12:25 AM	#4
MtnDrvr86 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: 2002 honda civic ex Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 337 Thanks: 30 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I love reading comments on these articles. People was an RX with a turbo4...kinda defeates the whole RX thing...since, correct me if im wrong, it stands for rotary experiment. I would love for mazda to keep on with the rotary program. Its always been something that seperates Mazda from others. If they keep the weight down and make it a cornering beast like the RX's of old then I think there would still be a decent market for it. Once people get their heads out the asses and relize that its not always about power and top speed/0-60 times.

12-15-2009, 07:59 AM	#5
Rotarydisciple Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Drives: 2004 Mazda Rx8 Location: South Jersey Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The cost will be around $27,000. In the article they also stated that it depends on how the new rear wheel drive Toybaru does in the market in 2011. I saved up my pennies and dimes and want to buy both of them. Hopefully I'll have that chance.

12-18-2009, 01:37 PM	#7
Mouse Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: Miata Location: Miami, Fl. Posts: 186 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	RX does stand for Rotary Experiment...To be honest I'd rather want to see Mazda build an RX-3 to compete with the FT-86 and rumored 240. As far as the RX-7/9 is concerned I think Mazda will really push the limit as far as performance on the next-gen. I'm thinking along the lines of the Furai with a 4-rotorary POWERplant screamer to go up against the GTR, Lexus, NSX. I hope they would.

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