First Time Driving Manual Transmission...Need Advice!

[Veloist]

Okay so it's a little harder than I thought...I drove for an hour in a Yaris and I was still jerking to both 1st and 2nd. i drove for about a mile until my first stall. I did everything on the list--stalled, jerked, wheel spun, rode the clutch, etc...I was learning in a semi-hilly place but still stalled on the false flats. I'm still engaging to first very very slowly. This is why I'm not learning in the our new FR-S plus it's not even broken in.

At the end of the hour, I stopped stalling until our driveway but still took a long time to get the car moving. Sometimes I rev too high and the clutch isn't halfway out...but sometimes I roll back and my dad says I'm not giving it enough gas...It was confusing because the Yaris has no tachometer so it was really only up to me to determine gas input.

My left foot is also sore, on the top. Is that normal? I'm a bicyclist so it's not like my feet are unfit for physical activity. What's the correct position for the clutch foot?

Am I supposed to keep my heel on the floormat? I watched my dad and he keeps his heel on there, but when I do it I feel I need to raise my whole foot and I think that's what's slowing me down.

I only got an hour because we borrowed the car from a friend who didn't mind because he's selling it but I'm still looking for my own I can beat up.

I feel like I need a lot more practice just to get my muscles to remember when to let in and out but the uneven terrain is what's messing me up.

I'm never going to give up but I'm frustrated because it looks like I won't be driving the FR-S anytime soon, because I really want to be refined at it before I get behind the wheel of it.

[tisb0b]

The key point seems to be figuring out the friction point, get yourself on a hill and moderate the clutch and the gas so the car is just sitting in the one place. The clutch on the Yaris and the FRS will probably feel different to one another which may screw you up when you drive the FRS for the first time.

For the clutch foot do w/e feels natural and is comfortable for you and the soreness should go away soon enough.

[alan.chalkley]

I too am a keen cyclist that rides an average 200ks / week.
Driving a manual car is a lot like learning to ride a bike.
Start by driving in a vacant parking lot and then drive around the block.
One hour a day is plenty of practice and then when you feel more confident you can learn handbrake hill starts.
I taught one of my sons and he was even able to do heel/toe downshifts after about three months.
My wife and other two sons just wan't to drive auto.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by Veloist

Okay so it's a little harder than I thought...I drove for an hour in a Yaris and I was still jerking to both 1st and 2nd. i drove for about a mile until my first stall. I did everything on the list--stalled, jerked, wheel spun, rode the clutch, etc...I was learning in a semi-hilly place but still stalled on the false flats. I'm still engaging to first very very slowly. This is why I'm not learning in the our new FR-S plus it's not even broken in.

At the end of the hour, I stopped stalling until our driveway but still took a long time to get the car moving. Sometimes I rev too high and the clutch isn't halfway out...but sometimes I roll back and my dad says I'm not giving it enough gas...It was confusing because the Yaris has no tachometer so it was really only up to me to determine gas input.

Well don't be too hard on yourself and don't get discouraged. With enough practice it'll all come together and feel natural - a little like learning to ride a bike
When there's no tach (or even when there is), you can estimate the revs by listening to the engine. Try to go somewhere flat to practice so you don't have to worry about rolling, then get on the gas and ease off the clutch slowly until you feel it "bite". Do that a bunch of times in a row until you start getting a feel for it and can predict where the friction point is.

Originally Posted by Veloist

My left foot is also sore, on the top. Is that normal? I'm a bicyclist so it's not like my feet are unfit for physical activity. What's the correct position for the clutch foot?

You're fit, but you're doing a prolonged "workout" that you're not used to, so some soreness is normal. Also, you're probably kind of tensed up because there's so much to learn and you're feeling frustrated, so that could add to the soreness.

Originally Posted by Veloist

Am I supposed to keep my heel on the floormat? I watched my dad and he keeps his heel on there, but when I do it I feel I need to raise my whole foot and I think that's what's slowing me down.

I always raise my whole foot i.e. use my whole leg rather than just my ankle, because I feel I have better control that way, but people have different preferences and in the end you should do what works for you.

Originally Posted by Veloist

I only got an hour because we borrowed the car from a friend who didn't mind because he's selling it but I'm still looking for my own I can beat up.

I feel like I need a lot more practice just to get my muscles to remember when to let in and out but the uneven terrain is what's messing me up.

I'm never going to give up but I'm frustrated because it looks like I won't be driving the FR-S anytime soon, because I really want to be refined at it before I get behind the wheel of it.

The offer still stands to teach you in my Hyundai. Learning in an easy car is good, but as @tisb0b says, every car is different and when you switch to the FR-S there'll be another learning curve, albeit a smaller one, because the clutch will be stiffer (I assume) and the friction point will be different.

[Veloist]

Thank you so much @einzlr!

I know I'll be able to get the hang of it, thank you for the offer yet again! I'm definitely going to use the advice from you and from the others.

I want to be really smooth at everything before I get into my family's FR-S. From what I heard, the bite point is really high which is intimidating so I want to be confident before trying it.

[J2 Motorsports]

first need to find the friction point as stated. I also let people know that you can put the car in first and roll it completely without even touching the accelerator. This will give you control of the clutch.

turn the car on, engage clutch and put in first. EVER SO SLOWLY start removing your foot off the clutch and your car will start to roll. Keep removing your foot slowly until completely off.


Another way is to start on 2nd gear, if you feel that 1st is too hard. second gear you can run the clutch and accelerated a lot harder, however you will burn in if you keep doing so.

Its a learning progress.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by Veloist

Thank you so much @einzlr!

I know I'll be able to get the hang of it, thank you for the offer yet again! I'm definitely going to use the advice from you and from the others.

I want to be really smooth at everything before I get into my family's FR-S. From what I heard, the bite point is really high which is intimidating so I want to be confident before trying it.

Well feel free to PM me any time. We could do a few sessions in the Hyundai until you get the hang of it and feel comfortable, then I'd be happy to also help you transition to the FR-S. It's rewarding to help someone who really wants to learn and is grateful for, and pays attention to, advice they get from others

Originally Posted by J2 Motorsports

first need to find the friction point as stated. I also let people know that you can put the car in first and roll it completely without even touching the accelerator. This will give you control of the clutch.

turn the car on, engage clutch and put in first. EVER SO SLOWLY start removing your foot off the clutch and your car will start to roll. Keep removing your foot slowly until completely off.

This is *exactly* how we'll start out if Veloist wants to learn from me

[serialk11r]

I think one of the things that gets overlooked a bit is throttle control. I was jerking and stalling a lot, and I realized I had zero idea how much throttle to use, so I practiced starting with different amounts of throttle, different timing, etc. I haven't driven many MT cars but I think most cars have a pretty friendly clutch from the factory and a heavy flywheel, so it's very easy to start without going over 1000rpm if everything is in good shape (I had a dirty MAF so my car had some serious response problems at first). Learn the correct amount of throttle to give, and learn to quickly jab the throttle to that position at the same time you let out the clutch.

Another thing that's easy to forget is that if you just hold the clutch at a certain point, you'll have constant acceleration under slip. Often times people are instructed to "slowly let out the clutch", but what this does is increase the rate of acceleration until the clutch stops slipping, and then you suddenly stop accelerating, which is perceived as a jerk. The way to start smoothly is to let the clutch out to the desired position for the desired amount of acceleration off the line, and then hold your foot there until the clutch stops slipping, then let out completely. After this idea "clicked" in my head, I got familiar with the rate of acceleration given by the full range of clutch positions.

Also, uneven terrain is great! It's a bit scary stalling out on hills and all but it gives you more practice, and once you get the hang of it you'll be fully confident in your abilities to control the car.

[bestwheelbase]

Great info and support in this thread. :happy0180:

@Veloist, when first learning you want to remove unnecessary variables so you can initially focus on basic inputs: clutch engagement, throttle input, shifting gears. Hills are great, but consider those a "Day Two" adventure. Traffic is great, but not while you're focusing on other things. Start on a flat surface away from public roads. Big empty parking lots are the best (think shopping center or church).

Here's a good starting point: First, learn that it doesn't take much throttle to get a stationary car moving. Just let the clutch out and start rolling without touching the throttle. Then shift up into 2nd, still without throttle. Do that until it gets boring. Now hold the revs at 1,000rpm and do the same exercise. This is not a drag race, just keep revs constant and get the car moving. Then shift up into 2nd. By this point you'll have a much better feel for the interplay between clutch engagement and throttle position/load. Like @serialk11r was saying, it's good to focus on how these two things work together. My addition is that you start with one being constant to get a feel for it. Then you can start playing with accelerating during take-off.

Maybe your dad is a great teacher (does he normally drive stick?) but if not, I would definitely take up @einzlr on her offer. She's clearly a good communicator and has much experience shifting gears.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

Maybe your dad is a great teacher (does he normally drive stick?) but if not, I would definitely take up @einzlr on his offer. He's clearly a good communicator and has much experience shifting gears.

Well thank you for that nice compliment! But, um, that would be "her", and yeah, I've been around enough to have plenty of MT experience (founded the Old Timers Club ). Back when I was learning, cars had carburetors and you had to give gas just to get the engine started, let alone to get the car rolling; but not too much or you'd flood the engine. It's quite a bit easier with modern cars

Thanks for adding your tips on learning step-by-step and isolating the various aspects. I find that's the best way to learn just about anything.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by einzlr

Well thank you for that nice compliment! But, um, that would be "her", and yeah, I've been around enough to have plenty of MT experience (founded the Old Timers Club ).
*snip*
Thanks for adding your tips on learning step-by-step and isolating the various aspects. I find that's the best way to learn just about anything.

Fixed. Yep, focus on the elements then combine them for success.

Here's another tidbit for @Veloist -- If the car starts to do something that you don't like, then go "two feet in" meaning floor the clutch and apply brake.

Eyes up and two hands on the wheel. Don't be the guy who is busy looking at his hand holding the shift lever while he finally gets the car moving smoothly -- and hits a parking lot barrier or light post. It happens!

Like a friend of mine told me "Release your death grip on the shift knob, the gearbox is not going to fall on the ground."

[wrxgoose]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

Eyes up and two hands on the wheel. Don't be the guy who is busy looking at his hand holding the shift lever while he finally gets the car moving smoothly -- and hits a parking lot barrier or light post. It happens!

i had a friend do that when we were in japan. he bought an MR2 turbo. he'd never driven: MR, RWD, Manual, or RHD. wasn't a good combination. took him a while to get used to it, and once he did, put it into a palm tree at 70kph sideways

[Veloist]

Thank you so much @bestwheelbase!

That night I was driving the Yaris I was telling my dad I would've felt more comfortable at a parking lot but he either felt overconfident or he could've just been challenging me. It was 10PM at night and I stalled in front of two cars both on inclines. I asked to go to a parking lot but he said it was too late and risky even though we live in a safe place.

When we find a car that I will be practicing and eventually commuting in, I'm going to learn the bite points and really become familiar with the car's clutch and gas sensitivity in a parking lot first because I'm confident I can go smoothly after that.

[wrxgoose]

he was damned lucky to walk away from that without a scratch.




i'm sorry, OP. didn't mean to derail your thread, but keep in mind: this is what can happen if you distract yourself, and or learn someplace that has lots of things around for you to run into.