Strano Performance Parts 22mm Tubular front swaybar

[Sam Strano]

Some you know I've been working on this, some of you might not. I've had a prototype bar done for a while, but have had issues with bushings so testing and fitting have been delayed.

Well, some good news. I've got the bar on the car and it fits great. I also think I've simply solved the bushing issue (at least for now). Testing starts tonight on the drive home, and I have a really good drive home for this.

The details: 22mm tubular bar. It weighs 4 pounds, which is 1 less than the stock 18mm bar I took off the car. I opted for this size because it's been clear to me that the 20mm bars aren't quite stiff enough, and I feel the 25mm bars like the new Eibach (and I do carry that brand as well) will be too much for autocross and track cars. Since they are selling it along with a 19mm rear bar (vs. the stock 14mm) it's clear the front is meant to try and balance that. If you find the rear of the car too loose, the last thing you want is more rear bar. And with the limited droop travel you don't really want more rear bar trying to pick up on, and unload the Torsen. Just today pulling in my shop I got stopped dead when the right rear came up and there I was with no drive..... Who wants to make that worse?

Anyway, that's where we stand. I do have a list of about 10 folks already wanting the bars, I haven't forgotten about you and based on what I find tonight balance wise I'm coming to work and putting a stocking order in tomorrow, or I'm going to change the wall thickness spec to make it stiffer or softer by one degree, *then* putting the order in. Either way, it's happening.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I'm not a big blogger, and I don't take a thousand pics, it's hard enough running this place without all that. But I'm happy to discuss things with you.

[Sam Strano]

And please feel free to let anyone know who you think might be interested, autox, track-day guy, or street driver.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

The details: 22mm tubular bar. It weighs 4 pounds, which is 1 less than the stock 18mm bar I took off the car. I opted for this size because it's been clear to me that the 20mm bars aren't quite stiff enough, and I feel the 25mm bars like the new Eibach (and I do carry that brand as well) will be too much for autocross and track cars.

Awesome Sam! Any details on level of adjustability? Will there be any lateral locators? Also, how much stiffer than the stock solid 18mm would the bar be?
Looking forward to hearing the details!!

[apexaddict]

Totally in!

Let me know when you start stocking so I can call and place an order for one of these and a few other goodies. :happy0180:

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Awesome Sam! Any details on level of adjustability? Will there be any lateral locators? Also, how much stiffer than the stock solid 18mm would the bar be?
Looking forward to hearing the details!!

I am starting non-adjustable. I felt it was more critical to get one out there than have to wait to develop endlinks, etc. Also I want to verify with others that this is were we want to be. I think it is, but in the end you guys have to decide. Making is adjustable if I end up having to make a size change wasn't worth the effort at this point in time, let alone the added cost to the customer with new endlinks. The way the bar points down between the tie-rod and control arm means that you aren't really effectively shortening the lever arm all that much, which is how adjustable bars work. I've seen the claims on the Eibach and how much they say it stiffens, I'm not sure I buy it. I don't know how they are coming up with their numbers to be honest.

We don't need lateral locators, the bend of the bar does that job. I've been running mine a few days now and nothing has moved. But if you want to run them, that will be no problem.

As for the relative stiffness. Well, I don't have a jig. And to be honest, I do these things more on experience and trial and error than on numbers. I have made a lot of bars for a lot of cars (big and small both). I've played extensively with 2nd gen MR2's and with bars of 20, 22 hollow and solid, and 24mm. I've messed with 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25mm bars (some hollow some solid) on the rear of F-bodies for years. Mustangs, same thing. 18, 20, etc. all the way to 27mm. I've developed a pretty good knack for taking what I feel and getting in the ballpark on the rate I want based on size and wall thickness. I stated elsewhere that I am actually going to move up one step on wall thickness, which is .032", from this prototype because I think that will be the best for a C-stock car and cars with rear stiff springs (I've not seen any lowering spring or coil-over set not be stiffer in the rear yet---though I don't do that on my own car).

[Kido1986]

Can't wait to see how well this bar does.

Sam, any chance you can ballpark pricing, if even in PM? I understand that it may not be set yet and I wont hold any bad feeling if it costs more than what you say now. Just planning some stuff, want to know what this will run me, generally.

[ayau]

can you comment on adding a stiffer front bar with OEM tires and stickier street tires (star specs)? what about having only sticker tires but on OEM suspension?

so when one of the rear wheel lifts off the ground, the wheel on the ground won't receive any power? i thought with a LSD, the wheel that is 'slipping' will transfer power to the other wheel. my knowledge about LSD is limited. can someone explain?

[Kido1986]

Everything he has talked about for testing has been on sticky tires @ayau RS3s, 245s I believe.

He mentioned it will be good for C-Stock cars which implies stock springs, 7" wide wheels

With a standard Torsen LSD, you need some load on both sides already to get power to both. If you get one airborne, thus no load, a Torsen will let the free wheel spin as there is no load.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

Everything he has talked about for testing has been on sticky tires @ayau RS3s, 245s I believe.

He mentioned it will be good for C-Stock cars which implies stock springs, 7" wide wheels

With a standard Torsen LSD, you need some load on both sides already to get power to both. If you get one airborne, thus no load, a Torsen will let the free wheel spin as there is no load.

good to know as i plan to race in c stock (street class) next summer.

if the stiffer bar was added to the front on a stock car with OEM tires, this would induce more understeer, correct? from what i understand, the front end becomes too stiff, and since the OEM tires aren't very sticky, there isn't enough load on the corner wheel to grip the road.

can someone comment on this bar's performance between the brz and the frs? the frs has softer front springs and stiffer rear. how does this bar affect the frs vs the brz? will it make the already stiffer front end brz understeer even more?

[Kido1986]

The stiffer bar will make the car more prone to understeer than stock, yes. I spent the whole weekend oversteering in my BRZ even on RS3s (215).

The bar may be a little overkill for stock tires but truthfully, if you're planning to run anything serious to replace the bar, do your tires first. Sam may feel different but that's my opinion. You'll get much better results from tires than any other mod, short of seat-time. Autocrossing on those crap-ass Primacy is just an exercise in futility when I tried. I was so mad haha

With -1.4 front Camber, barely any IMO, on skinny 215, I really dont feel understeer in the BRZ. As to results on the different springs in the two cars, I can't comment.

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

Can't wait to see how well this bar does.

Sam, any chance you can ballpark pricing, if even in PM? I understand that it may not be set yet and I wont hold any bad feeling if it costs more than what you say now. Just planning some stuff, want to know what this will run me, generally.

I'm shooting for under $200... I might throw the first ones out there for a bit less too, just to get some interest going. Haven't decided and need to see what my price point will be. Some details to work out there yet.

[Kido1986]

Ill be first in line if at all possible Just give me a date and time to call :P

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by ayau

can you comment on adding a stiffer front bar with OEM tires and stickier street tires (star specs)? what about having only sticker tires but on OEM suspension?

so when one of the rear wheel lifts off the ground, the wheel on the ground won't receive any power? i thought with a LSD, the wheel that is 'slipping' will transfer power to the other wheel. my knowledge about LSD is limited. can someone explain?

The bar will work very much the same way across the board. I personally find the car a bit loose for my taste, even when it was stock. Adding better tires helps, because you have more grip at the end that tends to act up first, but it was still not as stable as I like.

Remember when we talk about CS and autocross and all, we want a stable car, but not one that understeers and pushes like a pig. Well, some folks think you can't have one without the other, but that's not true.

The way Torque Sensing diffs work (and that's what Torsen is, in fact that's where the name comes from) is that if you pick up the inside rear tire, you have no more limited slip.... the differential is now open. A Peg-legger. One-wheel-peeler.....

Not all diffs are like this, but Torsens are.

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

The stiffer bar will make the car more prone to understeer than stock, yes. I spent the whole weekend oversteering in my BRZ even on RS3s (215).

The bar may be a little overkill for stock tires but truthfully, if you're planning to run anything serious to replace the bar, do your tires first. Sam may feel different but that's my opinion. You'll get much better results from tires than any other mod, short of seat-time. Autocrossing on those crap-ass Primacy is just an exercise in futility when I tried. I was so mad haha

With -1.4 front Camber, barely any IMO, on skinny 215, I really dont feel understeer in the BRZ. As to results on the different springs in the two cars, I can't comment.

Can't say I diagree. Tires are huge... and adding grip does tighten the car up when being tossed and under power. But it actually loosens it up on turn in. That's the issue with tires that are less and less grippy. Turn in bite suffers, as does the behavior off the corner, with a lack of fun grip mid-corner to boot).