Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

[subiestyle]

for 5th and 6th you gotta shift the gears with some authority. she may be a bit tight getting it into the gate.

[extrashaky]

I'm having a difficult time being convinced.

Originally Posted by subiestyle

shifting for speed or racing is different. you never have to get into first gear, or start off in first gear, so the the heel on the floor method is not necessary.

That's not making a whole lot of sense. If speed were the issue, it would be faster to not move your whole leg.

Originally Posted by subiestyle

now if i was racing, then you do move your whole leg because speed wins over finesse.

I'm curious exactly what kind of finesse you're achieving in the operation of your clutch. Can you expand on that?

Originally Posted by subiestyle

you may have learned on an older car where the clutch travel was really long and you had to move your whole leg, but on our cars, the clutch travel is relatively short.

I learned on an MG Midget and an MGB, and my first car was a Triumph TR6. The clutches on these all had throws similar to or shorter than the BRZ, so your assumption is quite wrong. Using the whole leg has nothing to do with the clutch travel. It has to do with avoiding the temptation to rest the foot on the clutch in between shifts and place pressure on the throwout bearing. Those bearings were rather small on those old cars and likely not as robust as the ones on today's cars, but the same principle applies.

Why risk the wear when it's not that big a deal just to learn to do it correctly?

[calidus]

Drive throughs are the anti-christ.

[subiestyle]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I'm having a difficult time being convinced.



That's not making a whole lot of sense. If speed were the issue, it would be faster to not move your whole leg.

You get much faster clutch operation when you use your whole leg to step on and release the clutch pedal. When you pivot your foot to operate the clutch with heel planted, you will have to lift your whole leg to completely let out the clutch during the last 20% (or so) of the clutch travel. It's quicker to just start your leg lift first while you pivot your foot upwards, which is basically just lifting your whole leg from the beginning of the movement.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I'm curious exactly what kind of finesse you're achieving in the operation of your clutch. Can you expand on that?

You're using the floor as leverage to feel where the clutch is in relation to the floor. Moving the clutch pedal up and down a millimeter is much easier when your heel is planted vs when your leg is just floating in the air. I'm not saying you should stay in this spot, or do this while you drive, but I bring this up to emphasize the finesse I was talking about. Imagine trying to write an essay with your hand suspended in the air vs your hand planted on the desk.

What this accomplishes for starts in 1st gear, is that I let out the clutch quickly to the exact point of clutch bite consistently to the millimeter with my heel planted, engage the clutch and then lift my leg to fully release the clutch pedal and move to the dead pedal.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I learned on an MG Midget and an MGB, and my first car was a Triumph TR6. The clutches on these all had throws similar to or shorter than the BRZ, so your assumption is quite wrong. Using the whole leg has nothing to do with the clutch travel. It has to do with avoiding the temptation to rest the foot on the clutch in between shifts and place pressure on the throwout bearing. Those bearings were rather small on those old cars and likely not as robust as the ones on today's cars, but the same principle applies.

Why risk the wear when it's not that big a deal just to learn to do it correctly?

I think your misunderstanding my method. I'm not operating the whole clutch with my heel on the floor. I don't think anyone has big enough feet to operate the clutch through the whole travel with the heel planted on the stock configuration.

[leicaboss]

@subiestyle, your description of using your heel to pivot the rest of the foot for precision footwork is precisely what my father taught me many, many years ago when I was learning how to drive manual.

I think the benefit of doing so is that I can nail the engagement spot every time - however, what am I to do after first gear? I believe I've maintained years of bad habit, without knowing so. After first do I need to be using my whole leg to press the clutch in and then all the way out after putting it into the next gear?

[Tgionet]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Reverse is definitely the gear in which everyone burns the clutch the most.

Fixed that for you.

Originally Posted by leicaboss

@subiestyle, your description of using your heel to pivot the rest of the foot for precision footwork is precisely what my father taught me many, many years ago when I was learning how to drive manual.

I think the benefit of doing so is that I can nail the engagement spot every time - however, what am I to do after first gear? I believe I've maintained years of bad habit, without knowing so. After first do I need to be using my whole leg to press the clutch in and then all the way out after putting it into the next gear?

Precision with the clutch pedal isn't really necessary after you get going. Hell, if you really want to split hairs the clutch isn't necessary after you get going (disclaimer: use your damned clutch when shifting on a non sequential box). Anyway, it doesn't really matter what method you're using the operate the clutch pedal, just that your chosen method doesn't cause accelerated wear and is comfortable for you.

[leicaboss]

Great so I guess I'm not doing it all too wrong. Though obviously once I get going I'd want to avoid gassin' it while the clutch is still in (riding the clutch). Question is, when I let it in and out immediately, it's a lot less smooth and more jerky.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by leicaboss

Great so I guess I'm not doing it all too wrong. Though obviously once I get going I'd want to avoid gassin' it while the clutch is still in (riding the clutch). Question is, when I let it in and out immediately, it's a lot less smooth and more jerky.

It's a wear item and smoothness is attained through slipping. Learning how much is what dictates how much it will wear. Just dropping it is certainly jerky and you move wear away from the clutch and into the drivetrain from my understanding.

I've considered a 1pc driveshaft not only for the performance benefit, but also because during moderately "crappy" shifting and clutch engagement/disengagement you can FEEL the 2pc driveshaft doing its sloppy thing.

[leicaboss]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

It's a wear item and smoothness is attained through slipping. Learning how much is what dictates how much it will wear. Just dropping it is certainly jerky and you move wear away from the clutch and into the drivetrain from my understanding.

I've considered a 1pc driveshaft not only for the performance benefit, but also because during moderately "crappy" shifting and clutch engagement/disengagement you can FEEL the 2pc driveshaft doing its sloppy thing.

That's actually a really good point you bring up, I wonder if this is noticeable.

@mkivsoopra?

[subiestyle]

Originally Posted by leicaboss

@subiestyle, your description of using your heel to pivot the rest of the foot for precision footwork is precisely what my father taught me many, many years ago when I was learning how to drive manual.

I think the benefit of doing so is that I can nail the engagement spot every time - however, what am I to do after first gear? I believe I've maintained years of bad habit, without knowing so. After first do I need to be using my whole leg to press the clutch in and then all the way out after putting it into the next gear?

For every gear after first, I find it much less tiresome to keep my heel planted. But the shifts are faster, so the leg lift and foot rotation are done in almost the same motion.

[mkivsoopra]

Originally Posted by leicaboss

That's actually a really good point you bring up, I wonder if this is noticeable.

@mkivsoopra?

Hm.. I couldn't tell, because I changed the clutch, flywheel, driveshaft, and transmission mount bushing insert all at the same time, so it would've been difficult to determine which mod changed what.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by subiestyle

I think your misunderstanding my method. I'm not operating the whole clutch with my heel on the floor. I don't think anyone has big enough feet to operate the clutch through the whole travel with the heel planted on the stock configuration.

Yes, I think I was misunderstanding what you're doing. The poster I was originally responding to said this...

Originally Posted by calidus

Can anyone actually completely press and release the stock clutch without having to move their leg(ie ankle only)? I can't and it drives me crazy, because I tend to jerk the clutch at the every end of releasing it.

And in that context it sounded like both of you were riding the clutch the way that subaruwrxfan goofball did in the video on the first page of this thread. Part of this thread's name is "Save my clutch," after all.

Originally Posted by subiestyle

You're using the floor as leverage to feel where the clutch is in relation to the floor. Moving the clutch pedal up and down a millimeter is much easier when your heel is planted vs when your leg is just floating in the air. I'm not saying you should stay in this spot, or do this while you drive, but I bring this up to emphasize the finesse I was talking about. Imagine trying to write an essay with your hand suspended in the air vs your hand planted on the desk.

What this accomplishes for starts in 1st gear, is that I let out the clutch quickly to the exact point of clutch bite consistently to the millimeter with my heel planted, engage the clutch and then lift my leg to fully release the clutch pedal and move to the dead pedal.

So I tried this when I was out earlier, and it just didn't work for me. I don't have any trouble finding the exact contact point using my whole leg. When I planted my heel and tried to find it, it felt completely awkward, and I ended up kachunkachunking embarrassingly into the intersection like a 15 year old.

So I'm still not convinced. but if it works for you and you're not burning up clutches, more power to you.

[calidus]

I think I just lugged my engine for the first time I ended up going <5mph and <1k rmps in 3rd. Can you guys please tell me the appropriate action to do in the following situation:

I was 45mph in the left hand lane in 5th gear, I down shifted into 4th and got into the turn lane. I was slowing down expecting to come to a complete stop, I pressed the clutch to the floor and shifted into neutral. Now I am going like 3mph in neutral and someone makes a right hand turn giving me an opportunity to make my turn. So shifted into 3rd and made my turn, bad idea it felt like I had ovals for wheels.

Should I have skipped 3rd and gone into 1st or 2nd? Should I have gone through my gears all the way down to 1st? Should I have double clutched?

[dbrandt01]

I don't know if it's the "appropriate" way, but if I'm going 7mph or so or slower, I'm shifting into first. Even second seems rough with going that slow. I don't usually downshift all the way. I downshift to third then put it in neutral unless it's really slow like 10-15mph then I go into second. I don't even double clutch, but let some of the other experienced guys chime in. I could be wrong too.