Tales from the Dyno: UEL E85 power

[Shiv@Openflash]

Hi guys,
Was going through our dyno database today and I found an interesting comparison that some may find interested. Two separate cars running on E85. Both 6MT. Both custom dyno tuned on the same dyno in similar conditions. Both running on OpenFlash Tablet with very similar tunes.

Car 1 (our shop car)
Modified inlet duct
OpenFlash UEL Header
OpenFlash Tablet
LW wheels/tires
Stock everything else

Car 2 (customer car)
TRD airbox
3rd party UEL header
Over pipe
Front pipe with free-flow cat
Cat-back exhaust
LW pulleys
aluminum driveshaft
clutch w/ LW flywheel
LW wheels/tires

STD corrected:


Uncorrected/Actual:


Conditions:


Rambling Thoughts/Opinions
-Lightweight pulleys/driveshafts/flywheels don't do much (if anything) on a 4th gear dyno pull since the rate of acceleration (dRPM/dT) is so low. It's only in very low gears (and especially when free revving in neutral!) that reductions in rotational mass make a measurable (and noticeable) difference. They are the kinds of mods you feel in certain conditions (rev matching, blipping, etc,). But don't expect it to make your car faster in most conditions. But the improved response you feel under those few conditions feels fantastic.

-Most of the 2-3 whp difference between the two cars can probably be attributed to the cat-back and high flow cat in the customer (blue) car.

-E85 is great. On 91oct, the most we most we would expect to see on our shop car is 190whp. Not only is the extra power everywhere great, running on E85 also miraculously fills in the torque dip with no other changes to the car:


-The FA20 is also pretty darn good. One of the benefits of being very high compression is that there is so much untapped power potential. And that the only thing you need to extract it is better fuel/higher octane. Also, the fact that Subaru/Toyota made so much compromise when it comes to factory header design (closed coupled cat, poor collector, etc,) means that a simple 20 minute header swap can yield such big power on 91 oct (when coupled with a tune). Stock vs OFT tune+Openflash Header on 91oct:


And Stock vs OFT tune+OpenFlash Header on E85 :

I would never have expected to see these kinds of gains with just 2 modifications (tune and headers) and a change in fuel. We are lucky to be enjoying such a great platform. Not many other NA cars are so responsive to tuning

[horrorbiz]

I need to order the header!

[utekineir]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

-The FA20 is also pretty darn good. One of the benefits of being very high compression is that there is so much untapped power potential. And that the only thing you need to extract it is better fuel/higher octane.

with this in mind what are your thoughts on any value for w/m on this car na?

e85 isn't an option here.

[Captain Insano]

That last chart is pretty amazing and I agree with you, does make me feel like this engine is a very badass little NA 2.0L. A 30+whp gain with just OFT + OFH + E85. Even with lowly 91 octane it's pulling nearly 20whp gain with OFT + OFH. For an OEM 200 chp car that's a very substantial gain at the wheels with very minimal modification/investment!!

[mkivsoopra]

Haha, that looks familiar. It's incredible how similar the curves look, despite it being different cars and different mods.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by mkivsoopra

Haha, that looks familiar. It's incredible how similar the curves look, despite it being different cars and different mods.

Yep! Goes to show that there is only so many ways to skin a cat with bolt-on mods. At the end of the day, any given engine has a given volumetric efficiency profile. You're car is still my favorite (and most powerful) NA FR-S of all time though

[andrew5826]

are there options for those without e85 available to enjoy the same performance benefits? 94 pump 0% ethanol is the best available here

[FrsDuke]

Similar but not the same. Less output better mpg. Stage1 and stage2 91 octane maps are available, and they now support remote tuning packages so you could optimize for 94 I'm sure. Click on shiv's sig for info.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by andrew5826

are there options for those without e85 available to enjoy the same performance benefits? 94 pump 0% ethanol is the best available here

Unfortunately, there is no good substitute for e85. Not even 100oct race fuel. But on 94oct, you could easily make ~195whp with the OFT/OFH combo.

[andrew5826]

will just loading a pump gas stage 2 uel tune fully utilize the benefits of 94 vs 91 or 93 or will it need further custom tuning? this is going to be on a car w/ full catless exhaust and jdl uel


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[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by utekineir

with this in mind what are your thoughts on any value for w/m on this car na?

e85 isn't an option here.

I've only run methanol injection on turbo cars but it is feasible to use it with the FA20. And it should work almost as well as e85. But an additional controller will be required along with some sort if failsafe to jump in if meth were to run out. We have done just this in our BMW applications. It would take quite a bit of work to design a kit for the FA20 and I'm not quite sure how big the market would be unfortunately.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by andrew5826

will just loading a pump gas stage 2 uel tune fully utilize the benefits of 94 vs 91 or 93 or will it need further custom tuning? this is going to be on a car w/ full catless exhaust and jdl uel


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Custom tuning would be required to pick up the extra 5whp or so that you could squeeze out with 93/94oct. That could be done by yourself or us (through custom e-tuning) if your feel more comfortable with it.

[86-tundra]

Basically, shiv is saying

OFT + OFH + e85 = near max power out of NA (currently)

So buy his stuff. And I got no problems with this, because I bought his stuff.

looking forward to that openflash supercharger...

[Superstar]

How safe are these tunes? Do they modify the transient timing table? Just worried about the direct injection issues...