2017 BRZ Vs. 2005 Boxter S Vs. 2016 WRX Vs……

[spralwers]

I can't put into words how ironic that is. But the Japanese do have a deep love for German cars. If you hang around the cities and pay attention to the cars driving by, you'll see a surprising amount of German LHD cars.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by spralwers

I can't put into words how ironic that is. But the Japanese do have a deep love for German cars. If you hang around the cities and pay attention to the cars driving by, you'll see a surprising amount of German LHD cars.

What cities? I never noticed that in Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, or Hiroshima.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Strangely Japanese think that the European suspensions are more advanced and mature than their own "rougher" designs. Not a coincidence that Sti is racing with a Bilstein suspension on their WRX, a Sachs suspension on their BRZ GT300 and all the new 86/BRZ performance versions have a Sachs suspension too.

Which is a shame because I just finished a 6 month road test of Showa Tuning Evolution spring/shock combo and from a performance perspective, see the new Sachs suspension to be a step backwards from these in most road conditions.

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

~*many words*~

Yup

Totally agree about the CX-5, by the way. A few years ago a friend insisted I accompany him on a boring-car shopping mission-- he wanted a crossover. We drove a bunch of cars: Outback, Impreza (trying to convince him of something smaller), CRV, RAV 4, etc. Every single car that wasn't the CX-5 was garbage (the RAV4 was so bad I couldn't even believe it). The CX-5 was so night-and-day different from the rest it was remarkable. If you had to buy a crossover type thing it's gotta be either that car or a Porsche. The suspension setup is just great.

[spralwers]

Originally Posted by fatoni

What cities? I never noticed that in Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, or Hiroshima.

Gifu and Tokyo. It may be that my memory is fuzzy and I was blending my experiences with both cities together.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Which is a shame because I just finished a 6 month road test of Showa Tuning Evolution spring/shock combo and from a performance perspective, see the new Sachs suspension to be a step backwards from these in most road conditions.

Yes. I have heard very good reviews about the Showa Tuning Evolution suspension, but I think there are in a totally different price range comparing to the Sachs offering in the PP package or the tS US based car.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by spralwers

...........mall Japanese roads are way more fun than German cars built for the autobahn in that specific department. My driving environment is more similar to Japan than it is Germany, so it's not just the BRZ - all those lower HP, shorter geared, rougher suspension Japanese cars hit the right spot for stimulation. I visited Japan about a year ago, and immediately after seeing their roads, everything about their car design just clicked.

Yeah I can totally relate to all of what you're saying. I keep on lamenting how modern sports cars have become largely irrelevant. I mean take the Ford GT350 for instance, from what I've read, you can hit 80 MPH in 2nd gear! then what on earth are the rest of the gears for? and that's one amazingly sounding engine there so do you honestly expect me not to rev it out? or do you honestly expect me to use a car in just two gears?

And then yes, I want a light nimble car full of feel. That can be done but I can't blame Ford or Porsche for what they're doing. They need to sell and like it or not, we are just a very small minority. The general public associate sports car with fast car. Even Porsche use to be dinged all the time for being slow compared to a Corvette. The public wants speed and the manufacturers need to make money.

That's why I did not hesitate much to buy the BRZ and plan to keep it for a long while. As far as I can tell, this car was a manufacturer mistake and it will not happen again. But I will be a happy customer nonetheless

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

Yup

Totally agree about the CX-5, by the way. A few years ago a friend insisted I accompany him on a boring-car shopping mission-- he wanted a crossover. We drove a bunch of cars: Outback, Impreza (trying to convince him of something smaller), CRV, RAV 4, etc. Every single car that wasn't the CX-5 was garbage (the RAV4 was so bad I couldn't even believe it). The CX-5 was so night-and-day different from the rest it was remarkable. If you had to buy a crossover type thing it's gotta be either that car or a Porsche. The suspension setup is just great.

But to be frank though the CX-5 now feels very awkward and non-intuitive after getting so use to the BRZ :P

The seating position is not right, the steering position is not right, the view is not right, the turn in is aloof.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the CX-5 is the best SUV out there bellow a Porsche Macan when it comes to driving (the Subaru Crosstrek felt like a boat in comparison) but on a fun factor I would give the CX-5 a 7 out of 10 and I would give the BRZ an 11 out of 10. The BRZ can light up the scene and create as much trouble as you're willing to bare as I've learned very quickly when I wanted to test out how well it can do burn outs and donuts. A big cloud of black answered the 11 question.

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

But to be frank though the CX-5 now feels very awkward and non-intuitive after getting so use to the BRZ :P

The seating position is not right, the steering position is not right, the view is not right, the turn in is aloof.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the CX-5 is the best SUV out there bellow a Porsche Macan when it comes to driving (the Subaru Crosstrek felt like a boat in comparison) but on a fun factor I would give the CX-5 a 7 out of 10 and I would give the BRZ an 11 out of 10. The BRZ can light up the scene and create as much trouble as you're willing to bare as I've learned very quickly when I wanted to test out how well it can do burn outs and donuts. A big cloud of black answered the 11 question.

Oh yeah, the BRZ is obviously in a whole different league of fun, but the CX-5 is pretty amazing for a cheap crossover. I absolutely loathe crossovers and everything they stand for (they're just FWD hatchbacks that are lifted and covered in plastic body cladding for absolutely no reason at all... yeah, lets get more frontal area, more drag, more air under the car, higher CG... and for what, because it gives our clients an "outdoorsy" aesthetic?), but I guess it's good that if people insist on buying them they can at least buy one that doesn't drive like a pile of garbage. Jesus christ, the other crossovers we tested were bad. Like unbelievably bad. IDK why anybody on earth owns a Rav 4.

[venturaII]

It's all about the cup holders and how much a smartphone can be integrated into the driving experience to keep you sufficiently distracted.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Which is a shame because I just finished a 6 month road test of Showa Tuning Evolution spring/shock combo and from a performance perspective, see the new Sachs suspension to be a step backwards from these in most road conditions.

I missed this post...tell us more! Any experience with the Comfort and Sport lines as well? Curious how they'd all compare to a stock setup under DD conditions.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

Oh yeah, the BRZ is obviously in a whole different league of fun, but the CX-5 is pretty amazing for a cheap crossover. I absolutely loathe crossovers and everything they stand for (they're just FWD hatchbacks that are lifted and covered in plastic body cladding for absolutely no reason at all... yeah, lets get more frontal area, more drag, more air under the car, higher CG... and for what, because it gives our clients an "outdoorsy" aesthetic?), but I guess it's good that if people insist on buying them they can at least buy one that doesn't drive like a pile of garbage. Jesus christ, the other crossovers we tested were bad. Like unbelievably bad. IDK why anybody on earth owns a Rav 4.

Thanks for the pointers on the Rav 4. I never drove that one. I just have the general assumption that Toyota=Boring and I generalized that on the Rav 4 and moved on and you confirmed it now.

To be fare to the SUV world, it does have its traits. They mostly do have more volume inside because they're more upright than a typical sedan so you end up with more lateral space inside. The AWD does come in handy at a lot of situation. The high up ride does do a better job of isolating you from the road imperfections so in places of bad roads that's a huge positive. Finally, that high clearance came in handy for me on multiple occasions. I remember once finding a parking spot with broken surface that's big enough to be a hole. Cars avoided that parking spot. I just drove slowly into it with my CX-5 and it cleared the hole and I found a parking at a crazy busy place.

I would personally just honestly choose an SUV over a sedan because the extra utelitly Vs. compromise is worth it for me. But then again I am one who would go all out with a real sports car when I want some good fun in a car. so BRZ + CX5=perfect combo

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

Oh yeah, the BRZ is obviously in a whole different league of fun, but the CX-5 is pretty amazing for a cheap crossover. I absolutely loathe crossovers and everything they stand for (they're just FWD hatchbacks that are lifted and covered in plastic body cladding for absolutely no reason at all... yeah, lets get more frontal area, more drag, more air under the car, higher CG... and for what, because it gives our clients an "outdoorsy" aesthetic?), but I guess it's good that if people insist on buying them they can at least buy one that doesn't drive like a pile of garbage. Jesus christ, the other crossovers we tested were bad. Like unbelievably bad. IDK why anybody on earth owns a Rav 4.

Actually the older Rav4 V6's are hilarious fun in a straight line

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

To be fare to the SUV world, it does have its traits. They mostly do have more volume inside because they're more upright than a typical sedan so you end up with more lateral space inside. The AWD does come in handy at a lot of situation. The high up ride does do a better job of isolating you from the road imperfections so in places of bad roads that's a huge positive. Finally, that high clearance came in handy for me on multiple occasions. I remember once finding a parking spot with broken surface that's big enough to be a hole. Cars avoided that parking spot. I just drove slowly into it with my CX-5 and it cleared the hole and I found a parking at a crazy busy place.

I would personally just honestly choose an SUV over a sedan because the extra utelitly Vs. compromise is worth it for me. But then again I am one who would go all out with a real sports car when I want some good fun in a car. so BRZ + CX5=perfect combo

See, if I felt I needed ground clearance and good loose-surface traction, I would just do this:



But I'm a moron.