Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Wise]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

@HachiRokuX - can't quote you for some reason


So many people get mad at me when I say that much of the Supra/2JZ mystic is from video games and movies but why else would a bunch of 20 something's have such a love affair with a car most have never even seen in person much less actually drove?


Even Toyota recognized this condition when they made the formal announcement that the FT1 would indeed be called the Supra.



"The Toyota Supra still enjoys an iconic status among sports car aficionados, 16 years on from the end of production. Its enduring popularity has been helped by its success as a popular model in the Gran Turismo® driving simulator video game series, which is only playable on PlayStation consoles, and as a starring car in the first film in The Fast and the Furious global action movie series."
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...ng+concept.htm


They know who they are targeting with this car and it may not be the group that can actually afford it.

I owned a MK4 Turbo from 2004 to 2010 and went through the whole 'supraforums' lifestyle. I would say a big part of it's popularity was it's modability. The fact that an exhaust, an increase in boost and a better air filter could net big gains and the fact that aftermarket part options were plentiful and not too expensive. I liked the car mostly because of Gran Turismo 2 and I won't lie, I was 15 when Fast and the Furious hit theatres and that was also a big part of me wanting one.

I ended up putting a Garret t04Z on mine and making really good power, but at that point tyres started becoming really expensive and traction was a cross your fingers and hope for the best affair. The Supra was basically a cruise missile, you pointed it and fired and got shoved into the back of your seat. It wasn't awful in the corners, but it was definitely more of a GT car. The big cast iron block up front made sure of that.

At the end of the day I feel much more confident pushing a 1250 car through twisty roads than I did the almost 1600kg Supra. I didn't sell it because I was unsatisfied with it, I really enjoyed it. I sold it to make a prudent life decision and pay a big chunk for my Masters course.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by BRZer86

I agree.

The more important point is the sports car segment is definitely a declining segment, so why would Toyota allocate more R&D dollars when they're coming off a 6 year engineering effort to further pass the twins' spec sheet (i.e. lower center of gravity than the twins).

The rebuttal to my statement above is, the rumors from April stating that Subaru and Toyota are moving forward with the next gen BRZ/GT86. So as long as Toyota/BMW/Subaru can keep finding partners to split the R&D bill, then we can keep expecting to see the revival of a dying breed.

#SaveTheManual

So, let's assume we are both correct and have these assumptions:

1. The FT86 designation was not a mistake on the transmission document.
2. Toyota will not have more than 2 sports cars.
3. There will be a next gen 86 in 2021 as the rumor says.
4. Tada stated that you need a different chassis on the current 86 to handle more power properly.
5. There will be a 4 cyl Supra.
6. Subaru will continue the emphasis on 4WD family vehicles.

Furthermore, let's assume all of these points are true. Deductively, I can think of only solution where this is the case: There is a 6 cyl Supra and a 4 cyl 86 based on the Supra chassis. Then it would make sense to have the transmissions made by the same company. Which 4 cyl engine? BMW or Subaru? I don't have a clue. Subaru could then concentrate on their growth segment and not have to produce a low volume sports car, but could benefit from a BRZ made with the new chassis. Toyota could then profitably develop one basic sports car with two personalities.

Before all of you jump on this, this is pure deductive logic. There may be other scenarios where all of the above assumptions are true, but I haven't been able to come up with one. I just don't think the FT86 designation on the transmission document was a mistake -- but that is always possible. And I can't see a public company like Toyota make the financial decision to have 3 cars in a declining segment as that would not be fiscally responsible -- and they do have a legal fiduciary responsibility to shareholders to make the most money they can....

I guess we will find out the truth in a couple of years....

[Wise]

Originally Posted by rvoll

4. Tada stated that you need a different chassis on the current 86 to handle more power properly.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So, let's assume we are both correct and have these assumptions:

1. The FT86 designation was not a mistake on the transmission document.
2. Toyota will not have more than 2 sports cars.
3. There will be a next gen 86 in 2021 as the rumor says.
4. Tada stated that you need a different chassis on the current 86 to handle more power properly.
5. There will be a 4 cyl Supra.
6. Subaru will continue the emphasis on 4WD family vehicles.

..just merely looking at shipping costs and its effect on regional MSRP, I think it is in Toyota's best interest to continue separate production in both EU & JP to keep fans happy on both halves of the globe. This Supra will most likely be very poor value in Asia/Oceania markets, 4 cyl or not. Look at how expensive the 86 is in virtual any EU/AF/SA market..very few of their counrties directly sell 86s, especially in AF/SA, and in all 3 markets the 86 typically ends up being almost $10-20 K more expensive than in NA. Throw in any displacement and/or vehicle width taxes which many Asian countries have, the costs quickly add up for this new Supra. I would not be surprised if the 6 cyl becomes nearly equivalent to $100 K USD in many smaller markets..just saw on Lexus South Africa's website, the LC starts at an equivalent of $140 K USD as opposed to $92 K for us!


In short, when it comes to cars it is pretty awesome to live in any part of NA lol

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Wise

Not sure what you are loling. He has said that.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Wise

He's an OEM engineer. He needs to think about the failure of components over 100,000+ units. The safety margins of aftermarket setups are simply unacceptable from a manufacturer's perspective. For you they're fine cause you only need to think of one car failing. Toyota has to deal with all of them if they fail under warranty.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by HKz

..on a side note, you would think the CoG would be even better with the 4 cyl model but all the CoG boasting from Tada-san was about the 6 cyl..think they are avoiding stealing any of the 6 cyl's thunder?

I am thinking that the 4 cylinder model would have a higher CoG than the 6 cylinder all else being equal.

I am also suggesting that all the talk about CoG is mostly marketing b.s. I am not suggesting that CoG is irrelevant, just given too much weight (clever huh?) in marketing speak just like 50/50 weight distribution which is totally bunk.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by HKz

..on a side note, you would think the CoG would be even better with the 4 cyl model but all the CoG boasting from Tada-san was about the 6 cyl..think they are avoiding stealing any of the 6 cyl's thunder?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ws&date=071718
Road & Track web editor Chris Perkins had the chance to speak with Supra chief engineer Testsuya Tada at the Goodwood Festival of Speed a few days ago, and the Toyota employee confirmed that there will indeed be a four-cylinder Supra. Tada also elaborated, saying the four-cylinder Supra will be lighter, with "much better weight distribution" and a sharper-feeling turn-in.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by ZDan

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ws&date=071718
Road & Track web editor Chris Perkins had the chance to speak with Supra chief engineer Testsuya Tada at the Goodwood Festival of Speed a few days ago, and the Toyota employee confirmed that there will indeed be a four-cylinder Supra. Tada also elaborated, saying the four-cylinder Supra will be lighter, with "much better weight distribution" and a sharper-feeling turn-in.

I think this is stupid it puts it in the class of mustangs and Camaros where any high school kid can take out a 8 year loan and have a "base" Supra


If this is supposed to be their halo car or semi-halo car to compete with base Corvettes, Caymans ect. Then you keep it one way.


I would be pissed to drop 60k+ on a car and see a bunch of ricers with cut springs and slapped on unpainted body kits driving Base models

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

I think this is stupid it puts it in the class of mustangs and Camaros where any high school kid can take out a 8 year loan and have a "base" Supra

You're really concerned that some high school kid can have the same car as you? Because that is a fact with or without a 4 cylinder model...

If this is supposed to be their halo car or semi-halo car to compete with base Corvettes, Caymans ect. Then you keep it one way.

Corvettes and Caymans (Caymen?) come a buncha different ways with wide ranging MSRPs. Not many cars ever come just one way...

I would be pissed to drop 60k+ on a car and see a bunch of ricers with cut springs and slapped on unpainted body kits driving Base models

Some are ultimately gonna get that treatment in any case.
But why should you be bothered? How does what others do to their cars prevent you from enjoying yours?

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by ZDan

You're really concerned that some high school kid can have the same car as you? Because that is a fact with or without a 4 cylinder model...


Corvettes and Caymans (Caymen?) come a buncha different ways with wide ranging MSRPs. Not many cars ever come just one way...


Some are ultimately gonna get that treatment in any case.
But why should you be bothered? How does what others do to their cars prevent you from enjoying yours?

Corvettes and Caymans have better improved versions over their base model. They don't go backwards with a sub-base model.


Gives a bad name to the community and lowers resale value. Loses that special feeling when you see a hundred base models rolling around on your daily commute. Id prefer some rarity if Im spending that much on a car.


You seem to be the only one defending their decision

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Wise

I think you've taken too much nitrous oxide....

You might want to read this when those effects wear off....

http://www.carmag.co.za/news/heres-w...86-more-power/

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

Corvettes and Caymans have better improved versions over their base model. They don't go backwards with a sub-base model.


Gives a bad name to the community and lowers resale value. Loses that special feeling when you see a hundred base models rolling around on your daily commute. Id prefer some rarity if Im spending that much on a car.


You seem to be the only one defending their decision

Who says they are going backwards? There were rumors all along that the Supra was going to be a turbo 4 cylinder. Maybe that is how the were going to go at first and then they decided to do an UP model with a 6 cylinder and a turbo.

And I agree with him. The 4 cylinder will allow them to reach a bigger market to make the development of the car more economically viable. Remember, there are many countries that put a tax on larger displacement and/or HP cars. We know the 4 cylinder is coming but we do not even know that it is going to be coming to NA yet.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

Corvettes and Caymans have better improved versions over their base model. They don't go backwards with a sub-base model.

This is purely semantics. Obviously, if there's a 4-cylinder model and a much higher-powered 6-cylinder model, the 4 is the "base"...

Loses that special feeling when you see a hundred base models rolling around on your daily commute. Id prefer some rarity if Im spending that much on a car.

Really? Your car has to be sorta rare for you to get "that special feeling"? Why?

Personally I've always *loved* to see other 240Zs, FCs, S2000s, FDs, and now, FT86s on the road. Always a pleasure to see beautiful cars, the more of them and the fewer trucks/SUVs the better as far as I'm concerned!

You seem to be the only one defending their decision

So be it. I'll be pretty psyched if it is made available in the USA. Lighter-weight, better weight distribution, and less $$$ all appeal to me more than having an inline-6 and +75 (or whatever) more hp does.