follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Xero Limit
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Forced Induction

Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-17-2014, 05:27 PM   #2185
Mikeez
Engineering Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: Scion FR-S 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 628
Thanks: 18
Thanked 48 Times in 46 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via Skype™ to Mikeez
@blackfireball15 what was the conclusion of the problem? Your catch can did not stop the water or did the water get in from the intake? Since you technically have a cold intake set up with FBM....


Why would a vented catch can be bad for emission wise?
Mikeez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 05:55 PM   #2186
blackfireball5
Senior Member
 
blackfireball5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Scion FRS Firestorm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 520
Thanks: 446
Thanked 98 Times in 72 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeez View Post
@blackfireball15 what was the conclusion of the problem? Your catch can did not stop the water or did the water get in from the intake? Since you technically have a cold intake set up with FBM....


Why would a vented catch can be bad for emission wise?
It seems as though most people believe that the water got there from water vapor condensing in the intercooler being recirculated from my Radium catch can. Most people are also saying the oil treated air filter would not have allowed that much water to enter the air filter through it.

So my conclusion is to modify my PCV catch can, and instead of it recirculating back into my intake, put a small filter on the exit of the catch can and make it vent to atmosphere.

Radium said this to me: "Condensation contamination is normal with all internal combustion engines. In fact, it is one of the reasons engine oil needs frequent changing. However, the catch can(s) should be collecting the majority of this water vapor."

Obviously I can't prove how the water got there either way, other than waiting to see if the problem occurs again after making a change to my system.

But there are enough smart people commenting in this thread (and getting frustrated with my constant posting) that suggest the same thing. So it's worth going with that solution.

A vented catch can is bad for emission reasons because you are venting the harmful gasses directly into the air as opposed to directing them back into your intake stream to be burnt. That's why strict emissions states would fail you if they see a vented system. That's a no no for the EPA. That's what I was trying to avoid with the Radium setup.

But a vented setup is the best way to go for performance.
blackfireball5 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blackfireball5 For This Useful Post:
Reaper (11-17-2014)
Old 11-17-2014, 05:59 PM   #2187
King Tut
NASA SpecE30 Racer
 
King Tut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2006 Honda S2000
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 7,279
Thanks: 607
Thanked 5,745 Times in 3,053 Posts
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 10 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to King Tut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeez View Post
Why would a vented catch can be bad for emission wise?
The engine is supposed to be burning those oiley gasses up not venting them to the atmosphere. It won't change what the sniffer sees, but a visual underhood inspection will probably fail. I didn't see @blackfireball5 's post on the next page. He nailed it.
__________________
King Tut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 06:26 PM   #2188
Mikeez
Engineering Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: Scion FR-S 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 628
Thanks: 18
Thanked 48 Times in 46 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via Skype™ to Mikeez
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfireball5 View Post
It seems as though most people believe that the water got there from water vapor condensing in the intercooler being recirculated from my Radium catch can. Most people are also saying the oil treated air filter would not have allowed that much water to enter the air filter through it.

So my conclusion is to modify my PCV catch can, and instead of it recirculating back into my intake, put a small filter on the exit of the catch can and make it vent to atmosphere.

Radium said this to me: "Condensation contamination is normal with all internal combustion engines. In fact, it is one of the reasons engine oil needs frequent changing. However, the catch can(s) should be collecting the majority of this water vapor."

Obviously I can't prove how the water got there either way, other than waiting to see if the problem occurs again after making a change to my system.

But there are enough smart people commenting in this thread (and getting frustrated with my constant posting) that suggest the same thing. So it's worth going with that solution.

A vented catch can is bad for emission reasons because you are venting the harmful gasses directly into the air as opposed to directing them back into your intake stream to be burnt. That's why strict emissions states would fail you if they see a vented system. That's a no no for the EPA. That's what I was trying to avoid with the Radium setup.

But a vented setup is the best way to go for performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
The engine is supposed to be burning those oiley gasses up not venting them to the atmosphere. It won't change what the sniffer sees, but a visual underhood inspection will probably fail. I didn't see @blackfireball5 's post on the next page. He nailed it.




I will reply to both of you here =p... I am actually taking Engineering and the Environment class this semester lol. I learn a lot here .
I should of done my project on this and not some dumb coffee cups.


Anyways sorry for that.


I understand the Heat Engine are in charge of burning the gasses that the catch can will release in the atmosphere. What I don't get the catch can set up in inside the engine bay. There's not much room to dissipate to the atmosphere.


Anyways, the engine releases the bad gases down the pipes and out the muffler. The cat cleans a % of it... Correct?


What is then the purpose of a catch can and wouldn't it make all of them illegal if the purpose was to collect water vapor?!?
Mikeez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 06:33 PM   #2189
dabocx
Senior Member
 
dabocx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Scion FRS
Location: United States
Posts: 1,265
Thanks: 564
Thanked 258 Times in 189 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper View Post
461 whp 393 wtq maxed out. Check my build thread the dyno should be in there.
How much boost was that at O_o
dabocx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 10:14 PM   #2190
King Tut
NASA SpecE30 Racer
 
King Tut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2006 Honda S2000
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 7,279
Thanks: 607
Thanked 5,745 Times in 3,053 Posts
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 10 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to King Tut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeez View Post
Anyways, the engine releases the bad gases down the pipes and out the muffler. The cat cleans a % of it... Correct?

What is then the purpose of a catch can and wouldn't it make all of them illegal if the purpose was to collect water vapor?!?
You are confusing two things. The gasoline engine combustion process isn't perfect, so it releases harmful gasses. Those are absorbed by the cat and what is left goes out the tailpipe and is measured during an emissions check. That has nothing to do with a catch can or the positive crankcase pressure issue. That is caused by combustion gasses getting past the piston rings. The engine needs to have a way to relieve that pressure which is normally a PCV system where those gasses go back into the intake manifold to be burned as part of the normal combustion process. With a vented catch can you just vent those gasses to the atmosphere instead of sending them to the intake manifold.
__________________
King Tut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to King Tut For This Useful Post:
blackfireball5 (11-17-2014)
Old 11-17-2014, 11:38 PM   #2191
Reaper
in orbe terrum non visi
 
Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: violent
Location: Mountains
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 279
Thanked 756 Times in 444 Posts
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabocx View Post
How much boost was that at O_o
I think 19? Maybe 18. I run 16 most of the time now as its a muuuuch more controllable tune.
__________________
I have E85 where there isn't E85, that's my secret. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=reaper+build
Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 11:59 PM   #2192
dabocx
Senior Member
 
dabocx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Scion FRS
Location: United States
Posts: 1,265
Thanks: 564
Thanked 258 Times in 189 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Wow I made 370whp and 308wtq at 15psi, I need a better tune ASAP.
dabocx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 07:42 PM   #2193
Mikeez
Engineering Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: Scion FR-S 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 628
Thanks: 18
Thanked 48 Times in 46 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via Skype™ to Mikeez
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
You are confusing two things. The gasoline engine combustion process isn't perfect, so it releases harmful gasses. Those are absorbed by the cat and what is left goes out the tailpipe and is measured during an emissions check. That has nothing to do with a catch can or the positive crankcase pressure issue. That is caused by combustion gasses getting past the piston rings. The engine needs to have a way to relieve that pressure which is normally a PCV system where those gasses go back into the intake manifold to be burned as part of the normal combustion process. With a vented catch can you just vent those gasses to the atmosphere instead of sending them to the intake manifold.


What is the purpose of the catch can ? Isn't to check your oil...? How can a catch can vent those gasses to the atm?


Anyways, someone told me manifold meant the header. Correct?


If that's the case what happens inside the engine is that when it releases those gasses it still all goes down the pipe which goes through the cat?


You don't have to answer all my questions... I am researching, but it will be grateful if you do...
Mikeez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 08:26 PM   #2194
Infamous Performance
Senior Member
 
Infamous Performance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 02 WRX, 05 LGT, 08 LGT, 08 SpecB
Location: Escondido, Ca
Posts: 4,341
Thanks: 64
Thanked 208 Times in 125 Posts
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeez View Post
What is the purpose of the catch can ? Isn't to check your oil...? How can a catch can vent those gasses to the atm?

No. Dirty crank case gasses pass through it and oil collects in the bottom of it, oil that would otherwise be digested by the engine combustion.


Anyways, someone told me manifold meant the header. Correct? Yes, but it also refers to the intake. There are two manifolds, the intake manifold and the exhaust manifold.


If that's the case what happens inside the engine is that when it releases those gasses it still all goes down the pipe which goes through the cat?

Piston rings do not seal 100% and as a result, pressurized gasses from the combustion process will leak out into the crankcase area of the engine, this is known as "blow by". This is just a fact of our modern internal combustion engine. Pressurizing the crankcase is, of course, not desirable. It can lead to blown out crank seals, oil leaks, etc. So the crankcase gasses have to be vented through the PCV system, which recycles the air back into the intake stream. The vented gasses contain oil vapor, water vapor and other nasty stuff that, if not dealt with, can coat the intake tract of the engine with oil and sludge.


You don't have to answer all my questions... I am researching, but it will be grateful if you do...
Hope this helps some. Info provided to me by a manufacturer (I am just regurgitating it).
Infamous Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Infamous Performance For This Useful Post:
lucid215 (11-25-2014)
Old 11-19-2014, 12:45 AM   #2195
Mikeez
Engineering Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: Scion FR-S 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 628
Thanks: 18
Thanked 48 Times in 46 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via Skype™ to Mikeez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous Performance View Post
Hope this helps some. Info provided to me by a manufacturer (I am just regurgitating it).
Answered all my question, but defies a little thermo dynamics xD. Anyways, research is all it takes!


Thanks buddy.
Mikeez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 10:18 AM   #2196
King Tut
NASA SpecE30 Racer
 
King Tut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2006 Honda S2000
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 7,279
Thanks: 607
Thanked 5,745 Times in 3,053 Posts
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 10 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to King Tut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous Performance View Post
Hope this helps some. Info provided to me by a manufacturer (I am just regurgitating it).
Nailed it.
__________________
King Tut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to King Tut For This Useful Post:
Infamous Performance (11-19-2014)
Old 11-25-2014, 02:01 PM   #2197
Reaper
in orbe terrum non visi
 
Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: violent
Location: Mountains
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 279
Thanked 756 Times in 444 Posts
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
@FullBlown check out blackfireball s posts. PMed.
__________________
I have E85 where there isn't E85, that's my secret. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=reaper+build
Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 07:07 PM   #2198
blackfireball5
Senior Member
 
blackfireball5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Scion FRS Firestorm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 520
Thanks: 446
Thanked 98 Times in 72 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I broke the white wire going to the maf sensor giving me a P0102 code. So I'm trying to figure out how to fix that right now. Once I do, I can focus on altering my catch can to vent. And hopefully I'll be good after that.
__________________

Last edited by blackfireball5; 11-25-2014 at 07:46 PM.
blackfireball5 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
best company ever, big fuck off turbo, blown, bow chicka wow wow, fbm, full, owners, powaaaaaa!, thread, will work for turbo

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AVO Turbo Kit Owners Topic Sportsguy83 Forced Induction 1890 10-25-2018 09:56 AM
Full Blown FRS/BRZ Stage 1 Turbo Kit FullBlown Forced Induction 455 11-30-2015 07:57 PM
FA20Club Turbo Kit Owners Topic pixel67 Forced Induction 1531 09-09-2014 12:36 PM
Full Blown Turbo Kit! Unleashed Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 70 10-09-2013 09:46 AM
WTB: Full Blown turbo kit (used) whitefrs Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 12 03-29-2013 09:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.