Frs vs s2000 - Page 82 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

juliog · 05-07-2014, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

If you take the 86 and lower it to CRX level, the 86 would still be the overall better vehicle.

Don't forget the power to weight ratio, tire/wheel size..

DylanFRS · 05-07-2014, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

If you take the 86 and lower it to CRX level, the 86 would still be the overall better vehicle.

What do you mean better? Faster in a straight-line? Faster around a track? Or are you talking about the totally subjective "feels better". Because your post specifically said "faster".

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

Same power, same tires, I think the FRS/BRZ would overall be the faster vehicle. Didn't your past reviews validate this?

tahdizzle · 05-07-2014, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

?

Increase the FR-S power AND lower the s2000 Power :p

CSG Mike · 05-07-2014, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

If you take the 86 and lower it to CRX level, the 86 would still be the overall better vehicle.

All I'm saying is the s2000's trump card is it's power. Take that away, and the 86 is faster overall, simply because it is mostly better everyplace else.

You forgot front downforce, double wishbone suspension, better weight distribution.

The s2000's disadvantages vs the FRS are steering feel, aero stability (it is purpose designed to be unstable), and chassis.

Add a wing to both cars, and the instability disadvantage suddenly turns into a huge advantage.

iLuveKetchup · 05-07-2014, 06:30 PM

The s2k also doesn't suffer from ice mode braking (atleast not as often). The s2ks trump card is its reliability, especially from its engine.

BobDigi5060 · 05-07-2014, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

Either or. I'm saying as long as the power levels are the same, the BRZ/FRS would overall be the faster vehicle. Maybe there are certain sections where the S2000 can rotate better, but overall it should be slower.

ayau · 05-07-2014, 07:03 PM

A better driver will still be faster no matter what car he/she is in. Not sure how much bearing this argument has since 95% of the drivers here aren't at that level.

tahdizzle · 05-07-2014, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayau

A better driver will still be faster no matter what car he/she is in. Not sure how much bearing this argument has since 95% of the drivers here aren't at that level.

Not saying I'm the Stig, just saying you never see us together.

fatoni · 05-07-2014, 08:53 PM

all the s2000 hate is a little silly. from what i gather, the aero of the frs keeps it in the fight with the power of the s2000. once you mod things, its going to be a silly argument with people using anecdotal evidence to prove their opinion. im not sure i would trust a new frs on the track for longer than an s2000 with 100k miles though. i also cant think of a car that needs less to be a competent track car than the s2000 off the top of my head.

Superstar · 05-07-2014, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

double wishbone suspension, better weight distribution.

Better on paper, but doesn't seem to be significant in providing a performance advantage over the BRZ (i.e. faster lap times).

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You forgot front downforce,

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Add a wing to both cars, and the instability disadvantage suddenly turns into a huge advantage.

I can agree to that, as the rear wing can significantly add performance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Add a wing to both cars, and the instability disadvantage suddenly turns into a huge advantage.

BRZ with 40 more hp vs S2000 with rear wing.. Which one do you think would be quicker? I think it would be very close, demonstrating that the BRZ is slower mainly because of a lack of power.

DylanFRS · 05-07-2014, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

BRZ with 40 more hp vs S2000 with rear wing.. Which one do you think would be quicker? I think it would be very close, demonstrating that the BRZ is slower mainly because of a lack of power.

Assuming that you could get enough laps in to warm the tires up before the engine blows with the stock BRZ cooling system and 40 more hp...

CSG Mike · 05-08-2014, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

Better on paper, but doesn't seem to be significant in providing a performance advantage over the BRZ (i.e. faster lap times).

Sure does, depending on the track. The BRZ only really starts to shine at 80+ speeds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

I can agree to that, as the rear wing can significantly add performance.

Let me rephrase. Adding identical wings to the S2000 and BRZ will result in the S2000 getting exponentially more performance gain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superstar

BRZ with 40 more hp vs S2000 with rear wing.. Which one do you think would be quicker? I think it would be very close, demonstrating that the BRZ is slower mainly because of a lack of power.

S2000 with rear wing is significantly faster.

Even with the horsepower equalized, you now have a car that is fairly aero neutral (BRZ) versus a car that is making significant net (both front AND rear) downforce.

The S2000 still will have more mechanical torque. Are we equalizing gearing too?

What if we brought the S2000 down to BRZ weight? What if the BRZ had VTEC?

juliog · 05-08-2014, 05:53 AM

Andrew025 · 05-08-2014, 06:11 AM

What if we made them both exactly the same?

05-08-2014, 06:11 AM	#1148
Andrew025 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Drives: Neptune GR86 Location: Portland Posts: 3,862 Thanks: 1,438 Thanked 3,505 Times in 1,806 Posts Mentioned: 60 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	What if we made them both exactly the same? __________________

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05-07-2014, 06:30 PM	#1139
iLuveKetchup My VTEC fluid is full Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: EFF JAY Location: NYC Posts: 935 Thanks: 149 Thanked 268 Times in 183 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The s2k also doesn't suffer from ice mode braking (atleast not as often). The s2ks trump card is its reliability, especially from its engine.

05-07-2014, 07:03 PM	#1141
ayau Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Drives: Some rust bucket Location: Polar ice cap Posts: 3,058 Thanks: 312 Thanked 1,045 Times in 556 Posts Mentioned: 37 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	A better driver will still be faster no matter what car he/she is in. Not sure how much bearing this argument has since 95% of the drivers here aren't at that level.

05-07-2014, 08:53 PM	#1143
fatoni Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Drives: miata, mazdaspeed protege, ls430 Location: socal Posts: 4,416 Thanks: 599 Thanked 1,442 Times in 787 Posts Mentioned: 28 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	all the s2000 hate is a little silly. from what i gather, the aero of the frs keeps it in the fight with the power of the s2000. once you mod things, its going to be a silly argument with people using anecdotal evidence to prove their opinion. im not sure i would trust a new frs on the track for longer than an s2000 with 100k miles though. i also cant think of a car that needs less to be a competent track car than the s2000 off the top of my head.

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