Confusion with some suspension items from japanparts, help!

[leevanf]

A Question for those whove done tS research and builds,

I have a 2014 A/T Euro Model and Im planning a JDM TS Build. Since im in the Philippines, shipping from Japan is a bit cheaper.
I am planning to go Draw Stiffener + Flexible V-Bars, (skip tower bar) engine and diff mounts, long steering bolt, steering and differential bushings, and a 15mm rear sway bar. No planned brake upgrades except pads possibly.

But when it comes to the subframe parts, I got confused with the parts!

Looking through sub frame mods for 2012-2015 Chassis, what is the difference of these 4 links? Am i supposed to get all four? or am i doing some redundant parts?
A "STI 20250G LATERAL LINK ASSY" https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/24568
B "STI 20152 FRAME SUB ASSY, REAR SUSPENSION"
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/45772
C "STI SUB FRAME BUSH"
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/43133
D "STI TRAILING LINK SET"
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/42805

But If i search for 2016+ Chassis, there are only 2 sets that are similar to the 2012-2015. They seem to have dropped the Sub Frame Bushing and Sub Frame Assembly.
A "STI TRAILING LINK SET" - same as 12-15
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/42805
B "STI REAR SUSPENSION LINK SET(ST20250ZR000)" - this set seems to be the same as the 12-15's Lateral Link assembly
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/30279

Just seriously need some guidance in which of these subframe links to get.

Lastly, I noticed for 2012-2015 Chassis, There are 2 Damper Sets available,
First is a Yellow+Red Combo (Bilstein X STI) https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/45805
The second doesn't say what brand, but the photo shows a Black and Silver Shock assembly, with STI printed on the shock
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/45136
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/45137

Is the bilstein the more updated one or are the STIs ones better for my car? I noticed the official STI.jp website only carries the Bilsteins now.

[nikitopo]

In general there were 2 JDM tS cars. The first one used the '14-'15 chassis changes and it was focusing more on performance. The second one used the '16 chassis and it was focusing more in comfort and to have a more German car feel.

Example:
The silver shocks were from Showa and they were used in the first JDM tS car. They lowered the car 15-20 mm. The yellow shocks from Bilstein focused more in a combination of performance-comfort and kept the car height almost stock.



From my point of view, the first JDM tS car was the more original. If you want a German car feel why not to buy from the beginning a German car?

[leevanf]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

From my point of view, the first JDM tS car was the more original. If you want a German car feel why not to buy from the beginning a German car?

We have 2 mercs at home, and honestly the brz is just so much more fun! (and a lot cheaper to maintain in asia)

Thanks for the tS history! putting the suspension/dampers aside, what do you recommend i do with the subframe parts?

Still pretty confused on those 4 items! Am i supposed to get all 4? or are some redundant parts/components of the other?

Both 12-15 and 16+ seem to have the same part numbers (Im assuming rear susp is for the rear.. and trailing link set is for the front?)
(1) Rear Suspension Link Set https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/24568
(2) Trailing Link Set https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/42805

BUT the 12-15 has this additional Sub Frame Assembly + Sub Frame Bushings available to it.
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/45772
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/43133

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by leevanf

Looking through sub frame mods for 2012-2015 Chassis, what is the difference of these 4 links? Am i supposed to get all four? or am i doing some redundant parts?
A "STI 20250G LATERAL LINK ASSY" https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/24568
B "STI 20152 FRAME SUB ASSY, REAR SUSPENSION"
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/45772
C "STI SUB FRAME BUSH"
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/43133
D "STI TRAILING LINK SET"
https://www.japanparts.com/parts/detail/42805
[/url]

Originally Posted by leevanf

Still pretty confused on those 4 items! Am i supposed to get all 4? or are some redundant parts/components of the other?

You should buy either A, B, D or A, C, D. The difference between B and C is that the bushings in C are already pre-installed in the subframe B. If you buy B, then you just swap the subframe. If you buy C, then you 'll have to remove your existing bushings in a shop and install the new ones in the car's subframe. If the shop has the right tools, then it is not very difficult. I would suggest to ask first how much will cost the extra work. If it is not very cheap, then go for B.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by leevanf

Is the bilstein the more updated one or are the STIs ones better for my car? I noticed the official STI.jp website only carries the Bilsteins now.

The Showa set was never officially available for sale separately from the first tS car (although you can order them as parts via japanparts). The Bilstein set has always been the only official standalone set available. The reason why they started with Showa on the first iteration was because the Bilstein set was not ready yet, and it was also a way to keep the cost and price in check on the first car.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The silver shocks were from Showa and they were used in the first JDM tS car. They lowered the car 15-20 mm. The yellow shocks from Bilstein focused more in a combination of performance-comfort and kept the car height almost stock.

Actually both sets read lower by 15mm on paper. The Bilstein set just takes a while to settle (I think it was a good 3 months lol). My car now is just as low as before with only the STI pink springs.

I have the rear lateral and trailing arms also but not the subframe bushings. It was the Bilstein set that really made the car drive like a German car. I found myself driving faster and faster afterwards without realizing it until I look at the speedo. Whereas before when I first switched to the BRZ from the Golf I kept finding myself below the speed limit cuz the car felt really quick in actually slower speeds.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by krayzie

The Showa set was never officially available for sale separately from the first tS car (although you can order them as parts via japanparts). The Bilstein set has always been the only official standalone set available. The reason why they started with Showa on the first iteration was because the Bilstein set was not ready yet, and it was also a way to keep the cost and price in check on the first car.

I would prefer personally the Showa set, but it was too much to import in Germany. The Showa makes sense to be cheaper in Japan as it doesn't have any import fees comparing to the Bilstein's. For us here it is the other way around . I also think that in total the first tS car with the GT package was more expensive, the second tS car cheaper and the sti sport now even more cheaper. No?

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I would prefer personally the Showa set, but it was too much to import in Germany. The Showa makes sense to be cheaper in Japan as it doesn't have any import fees comparing to the Bilstein's. For us here it is the other way around . I also think that in total the first tS car with the GT package was more expensive, the second tS car cheaper and the sti sport now even more cheaper. No?

Yes I think they probably spent the most effort and money on the first iteration.

I agree the Showa set is probably more OG in terms of feel but this is just a guess.

I actually waited for the Bilstein set cuz I thought that would be more traditional in terms of STI equipment, and that I really wanted to try monotube shocks. These are custom valved for STI and actually not as harsh as Bilstein B8 Sport Shocks that are aftermaket for many other cars I've rode in before.

I think the 2nd iteration didn't have the rear CF wing but did have the Recaro Sportster CS with additional sound deadening and chassis stiffening as standard, whereas the first car needed the GT Package to have the Recaros and the rear CF wing, and only the rear subframe was stiffened.

The STI Sport being a standard model has already incorporated a lot of the improvements done on previous tS models into the factory production line and no longer requires to be upgraded separately by the STI workshop afterwards. Hence it doesn't need to be priced higher than the previously two custom built cars, and finally cost effective enough to bring a version over to North America.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

If you want a German car feel why not to buy from the beginning a German car?

BTW I love this comment.

If I were to say this to my friends, they would wholeheartedly agree and just bring up the one and only reason that makes any sense to them which is $$prestige$$.

Even people I know that claim to know a lot and have driven a lot of different cars, they still don't understand the inherit difference between Japanese and German cars. To them German cars are the best no matter what. For me only Japanese ergonomics fit my Asian physique. But I digress.

[JIM THEO]

Originally Posted by krayzie

BTW I love this comment.

If I were to say this to my friends, they would wholeheartedly agree and just bring up the one and only reason that makes any sense to them which is $$prestige$$.

Even people I know that claim to know a lot and have driven a lot of different cars, they still don't understand the inherit difference between Japanese and German cars. To them German cars are the best no matter what. For me only Japanese ergonomics fit my Asian physique. But I digress.

A friend that owned various German cars Porsches, M3 E46, M3 E92, Audi RS3 etc was surprised by my car from the first ride, mainly from the comfort while been sport and good handling, if you see at "moose tests" our cars shine compared with most Porsches, Audis, BMWs although there is no tS car in Europe and all tests have been done with standard BRZ and poor Michelin energy tires

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by krayzie

BTW I love this comment.

If I were to say this to my friends, they would wholeheartedly agree and just bring up the one and only reason that makes any sense to them which is $$prestige$$.

Even people I know that claim to know a lot and have driven a lot of different cars, they still don't understand the inherit difference between Japanese and German cars. To them German cars are the best no matter what. For me only Japanese ergonomics fit my Asian physique. But I digress.

Originally Posted by JIM THEO

A friend that owned various German cars Porsches, M3 E46, M3 E92, Audi RS3 etc was surprised by my car from the first ride, mainly from the comfort while been sport and good handling, if you see at "moose tests" our cars shine compared with most Porsches, Audis, BMWs although there is no tS car in Europe and all tests have been done with standard BRZ and poor Michelin energy tires

The only German thing I installed in my BRZ is the suspension. Some months ago I had to change the rear sway bar to the bigger '+17 OEM bar, because the rear spring rates were softish. Now I have to install camber bolts on the front, because the camber is almost zero while the rear is -1.5 degree. While these numbers are within the proposed factory ranges, I would expect something more from an aftermarket performance part and not just comfort and a bit lower height. I've seen similar Japanese suspensions giving much better camber angles even with the stock top mounts (no camber plates) and much better rear spring rates. My issue is that I didn't get the expected result from the German part out of the box and I had to check different solutions and alternatives.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The only German thing I installed in my BRZ is the suspension. Some months ago I had to change the rear sway bar to the bigger '+17 OEM bar, because the rear spring rates were softish. Now I have to install camber bolts on the front, because the camber is almost zero while the rear is -1.5 degree. While these numbers are within the proposed factory ranges, I would expect something more from an aftermarket performance part and not just comfort and a bit lower height. I've seen similar Japanese suspensions giving much better camber angles even with the stock top mounts (no camber plates) and much better rear spring rates. My issue is that I didn't get the expected result from the German part out of the box and I had to check different solutions and alternatives.

did you expect the camber to change without changing the camber just because you got German shocks?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by fatoni

did you expect the camber to change without changing the camber just because you got German shocks?

What I said was that some other manufacturers did their homework better. You don't need camber bolts or camber plates. If a car enthusiast can improve the camber even by taking a grinder or dremel to the holes in the strut and slot them out why is it not possible by a manufacturer? I said on an aftermarket performance part. Otherwise, you are selling bs and just pretending that you sell something superior.

Ok?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

What I said was that some other manufacturers did their homework better. You don't need camber bolts or camber plates. If a car enthusiast can improve the camber even by taking a grinder or dremel to the holes in the strut and slot them out why is it not possible by a manufacturer? I said on an aftermarket performance part. Otherwise, you are selling bs and just pretending that you sell something superior.

Ok?

I'm just confused by what you said is all. I don't see the need to re-engineer the suspension mount points when a twenty dollar part will do the job much better.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by fatoni

I'm just confused by what you said is all. I don't see the need to re-engineer the suspension mount points when a twenty dollar part will do the job much better.

If anything is adjustable like a camber bolt, then it requires a separate certification here. So, your twenty dollar part goes to the one hundred dollar range. I would accept this if someone was buying a low-end price suspension. Not a high-end price and I suppose they know very well the local market and the rules.