How much is RWD worth it?

[mankarn86]

Hey Guys,

Was checking out K20 4 door civic si and they are CHEAP...I'm talking like $16k Canadian for a clean 08. Really the main difference to me between the SI and the FRS would be RWD and probably better handling dynamics in the FRS. The thing is my one friend sold his e46 (prob 15k in mods) and drives an SI and loves it. He's trying to convince me I wouldn't really notice the difference unless I track the car. I can't really see my self tracking competively (maybe 3 days a year)....if that's the case would you guys say the FRS is worth the extra $10-12k for 95% street use?

[Genomaxter]

This car was designed around the idea of a fun, rwd, responsive platform. If you seem torn between the toyobaru and a civic, you arent the target demographic. You either desire the rwd or you shouldnt really spend the premium on it. Go drive a miata and a civic and decide from there. Dont take anyones word for what is or isnt best. It isnt their money to begin with. In the end its your opinion that matters most. Who cares what others say, including me.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by mankarn86

Hey Guys,

Was checking out K20 4 door civic si and they are CHEAP...I'm talking like $16k Canadian for a clean 08. Really the main difference to me between the SI and the FRS would be RWD and probably better handling dynamics in the FRS. The thing is my one friend sold his e46 (prob 15k in mods) and drives an SI and loves it. He's trying to convince me I wouldn't really notice the difference unless I track the car. I can't really see my self tracking competively (maybe 3 days a year)....if that's the case would you guys say the FRS is worth the extra $10-12k for 95% street use?

You will notice the differences if you push both cars a little bit harder. My car is AWD, and I drove SC300 for a few weeks, they are completely different when i push harder even with ABS and everything on. However, if you don't really back road drive or mountain drive, you hardly notice the differences especially, when you only drive on highway or freeway. I still justify paying more for FR-S/BRZ though because I can have more fun when I choose to(without being an a*shole on the road).

[eight_six]

having owned and raced both, i could say that it really depend on what you prefer, but you wouldn't know unless you raced both. i used to love my fwd cars, until i got an s2000. from that car forward every car i own will be rwd and i hardly ever competitively track. its basically in how it feels to me. being pushed from being instead of pulled from the front. not having torque steer, having much greater control of the car in general (as long as you know how). its just such a more dynamic engaging drive. stepping into a fwd car now all i seem to be able to do is pick up on subtle nuances that i dont like about fwd's so its hard for me to enjoy them like i used to.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by mankarn86

He's trying to convince me I wouldn't really notice the difference unless I track the car.

He's wrong. You should do a back-to-back comparison of a FWD and RWD car and base your decision on your own findings.

I have never understood this notion that the basic elements of a vehicle are mysteriously hidden until you enter a racing circuit. It's like saying "You won't notice the steering wheel is missing until you enter a racetrack." How absurd!

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by mankarn86

Hey Guys,

Was checking out K20 4 door civic si and they are CHEAP...I'm talking like $16k Canadian for a clean 08. Really the main difference to me between the SI and the FRS would be RWD and probably better handling dynamics in the FRS. The thing is my one friend sold his e46 (prob 15k in mods) and drives an SI and loves it. He's trying to convince me I wouldn't really notice the difference unless I track the car. I can't really see my self tracking competively (maybe 3 days a year)....if that's the case would you guys say the FRS is worth the extra $10-12k for 95% street use?

well, you live up north where lake effect snow is common, i think both the frs and si will have limited slip diffs(you should prob research it), what do you feel more comfortable in when driving in the snow? AWD is preferred, FWD is safer and RWD is funner, but you can still get the tail out in the snow in FWD

its really up to you... plus the frs has a snow mode in the automatic

both are great cars none the less, im just tired of under steer so im going RWD

[eight_six]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

well, you live up north where lake effect snow is common, i think both the frs and si will have limited slip diffs(you should prob research it), what do you feel more comfortable in when driving in the snow? AWD is preferred, FWD is safer and RWD is funner, but you can still get the tail out in the snow in FWD

its really up to you... plus the frs has a snow mode in the automatic

both are great cars none the less, im just tired of under steer so im going RWD

Just a side note. Being rwd doesnt mean you won't have understeer. The s2000 is known as one of the most tail happy cars out there and I could still entice a good amount of under steer out of it.

What does change however is the dynamics of handling. You can just as easily entice oversteer or a 4 wheel drift if you choose if you're skilled. And the fact that the tires that steer you and the ones that handle most of the braking are not the same ones accelerating you.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by eight_six

Just a side note. Being rwd doesnt mean you won't have understeer. The s2000 is known as one of the most tail happy cars out there and I could still entice a good amount of under steer out of it.

What does change however is the dynamics of handling. You can just as easily entice oversteer or a 4 wheel drift if you choose if you're skilled. And the fact that the tires that steer you and the ones that handle most of the braking are not the same ones accelerating you.

Might also be worth noting that it only matters while accelerating. Its not a big deal. I would take good fwd car over an average rwd with these power levels. If the frs is worth the premium, its not because of rwd

[eight_six]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Might also be worth noting that it only matters while accelerating. Its not a big deal. I would take good fwd car over an average rwd with these power levels. If the frs is worth the premium, its not because of rwd

Not necessarily. It matters while braking and in general with regards to tire life on the streets and tire temps on the track.

But yeah, basically it's not a big deal

And being rwd is definaty not what makes the ft-86 worth the premium

[MRZ415]

Its all driving feel,
fwd pulls forward
Rwd pushs u forward
And 4wd grabs you and launch forward.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by mankarn86

Hey Guys,

Was checking out K20 4 door civic si and they are CHEAP...I'm talking like $16k Canadian for a clean 08. Really the main difference to me between the SI and the FRS would be RWD and probably better handling dynamics in the FRS. The thing is my one friend sold his e46 (prob 15k in mods) and drives an SI and loves it. He's trying to convince me I wouldn't really notice the difference unless I track the car. I can't really see my self tracking competively (maybe 3 days a year)....if that's the case would you guys say the FRS is worth the extra $10-12k for 95% street use?

The Si would still be fun for autocross and the like. Will the FR-S do better? Maybe. Is "doing a bit better" worth $10k to you? They are both great cars.

Wait until the FR-S arrives, drive it, and if you enjoy both of them equally as well, get the cheaper one!

On another front, this isn't really an apples to apples comparison. You're comparing a new car to a 5 year old used car. Of course the older car is going to be much cheaper. If you really want the FR-S, but don't want to pay for a new one wait a few years and buy a used one.

Best of luck,
Brett

[czar07]

its a fucking civic.

[tripjammer]

It's a old ass 2008 civic. It's a used car. Why do people keep comparing old cars to a FR-S\BRZ?

[LSxJunkie]

2008 vs brand new? How much is a warranty worth to you? Or having a car that you know nobody else has abused? This is an apples to testicles comparison.