Toyota rules out GT 86 hybrid due to projected lack of demand

[Turbo95eg6]

I wasn't even aware they were considering a hybrid model. How devastating.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

I'm sad to say it, but I'm afraid this is the most likely scenario. The FR-S maybe selling well in North America compared to say, the 370Z or even (the now VERY long in the tooth, current generation) MX-5. But it has not met the sales expectations that Toyota and Subaru had laid out for it. Yasayuki Yoshinaga, president of Fuji Heavy industries was quoted as saying that they expected to produce (and one assumes, sell) 100,000 GT86/FR-S/BRZ units per year. In truth, they've only just reached this number after 2 years of production. (link below)

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/19/s...-86-and-scion/

I don't think Toyota were ever under any illusions that this car was going to be a 'big' seller. They knew all along that it was going to be a niche car. An enthusiast's car. And they saw it as their way to get back into the sports coupe market and begin produce 'exciting' cars again. But at this point, when one considers all the R&D they and Subaru pumped into this project, the fact that it isn't selling as well as expected, likely means that they either already have, or soon will stop thinking with their hearts and will look at the bottom line.

And if they can use the chassis and the R&D which they pumped into the project, as a basis for a 'sporty' sedan, something that will sell much better than the '86, I have no doubt that they'll quickly push in this direction. And it's something I find more than a little lamantable. When we think of all the sports coups that have disappeared over the years: Porsche 944/968, Nissan 240/Sylvia, Toyota MR2, Celica, Supra, Mazda RX-7, RX-8...well, I'm afraid the current GT86 may be destined to be just another another footnote in automotive history by the end of it's model run.

I can only hope I'm wrong.

i really believe they over projected European sales.

cars in Europe are very expensive and niche products usually don't fare too well there. in fact the UK was one of the 1st market where Toyota pulled the plug on the MK4 Supra.

i believe the trio (86/FRS/BRZ) are doing well in every market but Europe.

beside, Tada san has already told us a 2nd gen is in the works

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

How the hell could you have "forgotten" to include the Integra, Prelude, and S2000 on that list?

Sorry. Yeah, those too. (Even if 2/3 are FWD)

Originally Posted by gymratter

i really believe they over projected European sales.

i believe the trio (86/FRS/BRZ) are doing well in every market but Europe.

beside, Tada san has already told us a 2nd gen is in the works

In the works huh? Just count the doors before you buy one.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

In the works huh? Just count the doors before you buy one.

fine, theres no "official" news i guess. but Tada san has been spot on. all the naysayers and non-believers said the same thing when Tada san said a new Supra was coming.

and guess what.

[gymratter]

and heres another thing. Toyota will built a much more expensive FT-1 which will most likely sale in a VERY LOW volume, but they wont make a less expensive 2nd gen 86/FRS? right....

[tennisfreak]

My FR-S will be my baby

until the day the FT-1 is for sale then time to trade up!

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

How the hell could you have "forgotten" to include the Integra, Prelude, and S2000 on that list?

Integra and Prelude were sporty cars, not real sports cars like all of the above

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

My FR-S will be my baby

until the day the FT-1 is for sale then time to trade up!

why not have both

FRS for daily and FT1 for weekend car

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by gymratter

and heres another thing. Toyota will built a much more expensive FT-1 which will most likely sale in a VERY LOW volume, but they wont make a less expensive 2nd gen 86/FRS? right....

Will they? I HOPE they build the FT1. But as of right now, it's nothing but a styling exercise and a lot of wishful thinking. By you. By me. And everybody else that would like to see it on the street. But believe me, we're not in the majority. And until it's for sale at a Toyota dealership, badged as a Supra, we don't actually know what will become of the FT1. And in the meantime, we have a LONG and sad list of sports coupes that no longer exist. And an FT86 platform that isn't meeting sales expectations isn't helping the cause.

A car like the FT1 will help draw people into Toyota showrooms. And the majority of people that come in to see it, will probably drive out in a Camry or Corolla or RAV4.

[FT-86-]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

My FR-S will be my baby

until the day the FT-1 is for sale then time to trade up!

Me too! I can't wait

FLD reported the FT-1 will have around 480hp 400 trq

In the development video and Interview with JayLeno they said it will be affordable.

I can see it priced to compete with C7 Corvette Stingray.

Around $50k

[x1UP]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

Will they? I HOPE they build the FT1. But as of right now, it's nothing but a styling exercise and a lot of wishful thinking. By you. By me. And everybody else that would like to see it on the street. But believe me, we're not in the majority. And until it's for sale at a Toyota dealership, badged as a Supra, we don't actually know what will become of the FT1. And in the meantime, we have a LONG and sad list of sports coupes that no longer exist. And an FT86 platform that isn't meeting sales expectations isn't helping the cause.

A car like the FT1 will help draw people into Toyota showrooms. And the majority of people that come in to see it, will probably drive out in a Camry or Corolla or RAV4.

This.

Just because there is a physical car concept being shown, does not mean that it will become a production car. It's a concept car for a reason. Not all concept cars go out for production.

It took years just for the 86 to go out intp production after some "begging" from Toyota to bring in Subaru and collaborate.

Until we actually, physically, see the model out in showrooms, then i'll believe it.

I do believe that the FT86 platform will soon die out, just because it's not hitting the sales numbers.

Of course everyone, including the executives of both companies, are going to say that they will make future generations of cars, they need to keep up the interest, otherwise, there will be none.

Just my two cents.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

Will they? I HOPE they build the FT1. But as of right now, it's nothing but a styling exercise and a lot of wishful thinking. By you. By me. And everybody else that would like to see it on the street. But believe me, we're not in the majority. And until it's for sale at a Toyota dealership, badged as a Supra, we don't actually know what will become of the FT1. And in the meantime, we have a LONG and sad list of sports coupes that no longer exist. And an FT86 platform that isn't meeting sales expectations isn't helping the cause.

A car like the FT1 will help draw people into Toyota showrooms. And the majority of people that come in to see it, will probably drive out in a Camry or Corolla or RAV4.

right, because a car company like Toyota will tell us their top secret plans over night.

FT-1 concept cost Toyota a million + dollars to make. they just don't concepts to make concepts. Toyota also filled trademark for the Supra trade mark. Tada san has said it will take 5 years to built. learn to read between the lines...

the 86/FRS is doing just fine, just not in Europe. its selling more than any other import in its class.

doesn't FRS do the same? its a niche product for that reason.

Lets take the FT1 away for a moment. how about the LFA? Toyota spent tons of money on that project that they lose money one but than won't do a 2nd gen FRS/86? right...

Also you probably know nothing about Toyota's current CEO

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by x1UP

This.

Just because there is a physical car concept being shown, does not mean that it will become a production car. It's a concept car for a reason. Not all concept cars go out for production.

It took years just for the 86 to go out intp production after some "begging" from Toyota to bring in Subaru and collaborate.

Until we actually, physically, see the model out in showrooms, then i'll believe it.

I do believe that the FT86 platform will soon die out, just because it's not hitting the sales numbers.

Of course everyone, including the executives of both companies, are going to say that they will make future generations of cars, they need to keep up the interest, otherwise, there will be none.

Just my two cents.

Every sports concept under Akio Toyoda has made production.

it took two years for the FT-86 to go from concept to production.

unlike with the FT86 Toyota already has the platform and drive train to make a car like FT-1. (Lexus....)

[thill]

I don't see the FT86 going away anytime soon. Not just because European sales are lagging, you have to look at what is happening across Europe over the last few years. Impractical sports coupes are not going to be huge sellers right now.

For those of you that don't know, Hyundai just announced that the Genesis Coupe is going to go more up market (cost more) and they are going to eliminate the 2.0 engine.

At the same time it looks like Kia is going to green light the GT4 Stinger which the project manager for Kia stated was their answer to the FT86 (lighter weight, RWD coupe that focuses on the driver).

Nissan is also rumored to be bringing out a lighter, cheaper RWD coupe.

I don't see Toyota wanting to abandon the market, and I don't see Subaru either. Lots of people said the BRZ would steal WRX sales away, but the WRX just had their best year (2013) in sales in over 10 years and the 2015 WRX is selling like crazy and selling better than last year. The BRZ is also selling quite well and has beat Subaru's initial sales goals in the US.

I love the FT86, I really hope they keep it around and continue to evolve the platform.