10-31-2016, 01:31 PM | #281 |
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Actually the argument could be even simpler. Toyota went thru all the trouble of convincing their own top brass to put in D-4S, in addition to convincing Subaru to go with the NA engine and trying to get it to rev over 7000rpm reliably, and now you want them to throw all that effort out and stick in a turbo? LMFAO!
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10-31-2016, 01:33 PM | #282 | |
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Another easy option would be to add a few more mm's of stroke to it to increase the torque. Make it a 2.2 liter. Play with the tune a little and get rid of the sporadic power delivery (torque dip). |
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10-31-2016, 01:45 PM | #283 |
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What would this imaginary factory forced induction '86 use for a transmission? Certainly not the current one which is made of glass...warranty claims would be comically high. Not that there aren't transmissions out there that are stronger, but we've all seen attempts to make them fit our tunnel. That means a different pan would be required, which is not a small difference on a production line.
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The Following User Says Thank You to venturaII For This Useful Post: | unhappymeal (10-31-2016) |
10-31-2016, 01:51 PM | #284 | |
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Not really arguing, just curious. Swapping parts is a lot easier than a whole new transmission. |
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10-31-2016, 01:56 PM | #285 | |
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Toyota's inline-4 performance engine development died with the last Celica. They only recently introduced their turboed 4 in the Lexus IS and it's by all accounts a dog. I already went over why I think an existing performance Subaru engine is not an option. All things considered, the FA20 is actually a good engine. It makes reasonable power, produces more torque than the K20 and makes it earlier than the F22, revs reasonably well and allows the engineers to fulfill their mission of a low COG. Could Subaru or Toyota engineer a better engine and drivetrain? Absolutely, but why would they for a low volume vehicle that shares little across the product line-up? Suppose Subaru did engineer a FA22 making 220 horsepower and 180 lb ft torque. What else would they use it in amortize the costs? The Impreza and Crosstrek sure as hell don't need it given their mission. The Outback? It's going to get a turbo. Drivers of those cars buy torque, not top end and rev happiness. Toyota doesn't need a H4 engine. What's the business case for this outside the BRZ? Last edited by unhappymeal; 10-31-2016 at 02:08 PM. |
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10-31-2016, 02:03 PM | #286 | |
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Sure, but that'd require all new engineering and assembly infrastructure, with virtually no production numbers to amortize that cost (remember that a F/I 86 would be more expensive and sell even fewer units than what we have right now). So much for parts bin upgrading. Last edited by venturaII; 10-31-2016 at 02:16 PM. |
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The Following User Says Thank You to venturaII For This Useful Post: | unhappymeal (10-31-2016) |
10-31-2016, 03:22 PM | #287 |
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I'm already happy with what the car produces pretty amazing considering with the fuel economy standards government demands these days. We'll likely see a minor displacement bump maybe a 8 speed automatic a la IS250-F programming lol 😂
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10-31-2016, 03:49 PM | #288 | |||||||||||||||
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I'm well aware of how dull that era was, especially for US cars. Quote:
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Miata didn't get a turbo until a second generation. Fiat will fall apart... Quote:
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As it is, a jackson racing supercharged twin would walk a WRX and possibly an STI, and there is simply no way that would fly with Subaru's branding department... Wasn't at the time the twins were designed, next! Quote:
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Know how you fix that? Weight. Sound insulation = weight Bumpy ride = weight smooths it out Stronger chassis = weight Then it wouldn't be the scalpel it is and would be just another fat ass car made for fat ass Americans Quote:
Keep in mind Toyota put a much (and I mean MUCH) beefier transmission in the Supra when it got turbocharged. It only got beefier when it came to the MKIV Supra. Granted, they already have the transmissions that could work... but they're all autos (IS350 and IS-F only come with autos). I'm sure Aisin could do it, or they could got the Getrag again. Quote:
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10-31-2016, 04:06 PM | #289 | |
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Mind blowing that people are running superchargers and turbos on a 12.5:1 CR engine safely with a ~50% power increase while being emissions legal. I can't wait to slap a blower on this thing in a few years. |
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10-31-2016, 04:06 PM | #290 |
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It's faster, but not by a wide margin. They are still in the same performance catagory. Miata is slightly more expensive if you tack on the LSD option. Miata is a convertable, but the twin's size allow it to have more utility. They are basically the same boat. Miata gets the praise for everyone and journalists, but the FRS needs more power and it's too expensive. I don't understand that logic. lol.
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10-31-2016, 04:11 PM | #291 | |
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Maybe if Toyota kept the Celica nameplate alive instead of calling it a tC and moved it to the 86 it would have gotten a bit more slack. But I have a feeling that may not have happened due to the Subaru collaboration, Toyota didn't want to 'tarnish' the Celica nameplate for lack of a better word. |
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10-31-2016, 04:22 PM | #292 | |
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Even after showing them logs and dynos of Edlebrock/JCRS 86s they still don't want to believe it. |
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10-31-2016, 04:25 PM | #293 | |
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Well that's a real interesting talent you have then, because your comments are almost verbatim with the article. I can't wait to read about the FT86 in another 25 years - I'm sure Wikipedia will say Tada REALLY wanted the 300 horsepower STi motor, but it was Toyota/Subaru brass who held him back... <rolleyes> |
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10-31-2016, 05:41 PM | #294 | |
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7000 rpm is very low for a car that has 86mm stroke. The stroke is usually what determines the rev limit. Shorter strokes can rev higher than longer stroke. The reason being is, PISTON SPEED limit. Examples: The 2zz in other cars are set to rev at 8,600rpm. It has 85mm stroke. The K20 can easily rev att 8,300 rpm. Yes it is also 86mm bore x86mm stroke like the FA20. The FA20 stroke will allow it to rev past 8,000 rpm but wasn't tuned to do that. So no, Toyota/Subaru did not give any effort to make the FA20 to rev high even though the stroke already allows it. |
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