Engine internals for 500-600 HP turbo

[Hags86]

I'm not putting in a v8. I'm too far down the path with a water-to-air intercooled turbo, Holinger sequential gearbox that mates to a FA20, a suspension and braking packing I'm happy with etc etc. I just need to build the engine and get back on the track - I don't have the appetite for months of sorting engine swap challenges.

[gtengr]

It will take some time but I recommend reading the Element Tuning thread on oiling their +400 hp race car. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63723

[TachyonBomb]

Just get a closed deck built FA20.

So far IAG and HKS are your only choices.

IAG made a few closed block FA20s that some forum members are testing out. But no updates or info has been released on them for quite some time. You will probably have to call IAG to get them to make you one or release any info on the motors.

HKS will cost you all the money. It just got released a couple of months ago so there are not any real world examples running around yet.

**A Notable Mention On The Above Information To 2017+ Owners**

IAG: Used the 2012-2016 FA20 motor. So 2017+ owners should be clear about their cars year when inquiring.

HKS: Did not make a clear distinction (at least to English readers) about the what model year their built motors are based on. 2017+ owners should assume they use 2012-2016 motors until someone more in the loop with HKS clarifies the issue.

It would suck to spend all that money and wait time on a motor only to not have it be a direct plug and play with the 2017+ wiring harness/factory ecu.

[CSG Mike]

Outfront also has a closed deck FA20.

[Hags86]

Just bought a closed deck block from Outfront. They have them in stock. Shipped 20 minutes after I called them and paid.

Still not 100% sure what to do about oil pressure.at high revs and temps.

I get conflicting advice about
- just shim the OEM oil pump
- flow restrictions to the head
- Reimax high capacity pump
- combinations of above

[TachyonBomb]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Outfront also has a closed deck FA20.

Very cool and they are in California... Thanks for the info!

CSG Mike:

If the prototype/testing stages of the of the Verus and Jacks Transmission gearing/synchro upgrades pan out to handle large amounts of TQ well, There is a good argument to be made that the all the major factory shortcomings of the 86 platform are now overcome.

Easily accessible built closed deck FA20
Verus/Jacks transmission gear upgrades
IS300 or supra 3.XX geared rear differential
1000 hp rear axles
OS Giken twin plate clutch (with CSG logo coughcough on the cover)

Idk about you but I'm kind of excited for the future of this platform now.

Hags86:

You are a bad ass! After researching Outfront, I think HKS lost a sale with me too. (Unless I end up finding a money tree in a magical forest one day) lol

Please keep the forum updated with your build. I'm really looking forward to the info & data your build will yield.

[Hags86]

After talking with a bunch of engine builders and tuners the build list has changed a little since I started this thread.

My approach is to spend as much is as sensible on the short block without any compromises and then as little as needed on the heads.

This is what's on order:

• Outfront FA20 closed deck block, machined for 1/2" ARP head studs
• JE MLS head gasket to suit block/studs
• CP Carillo custom 12.5:1 86.25mm pistons
• CP Carillo forged rods. Both my local engine builder and Outfront strongly recommended these. They have a sawtooth profile machined in the parting line on the big end. As the rod is angled this extra surface perpendicular to the direction of the force helps keep the big end and resists the natural tendency to go oval shaped.
• OEM crankshaft, linished and polished
• lightly recondition heads, just re-touch the valve seats
• OEM valves. Given the high compression and not super-crazy HP aim the consensus was these are big enough. If not the just add another 1/2 PSI boost. I can always spend money on the head later without having to touch the short block if I get this wrond.
• GSC Single valve springs. The beehive seemed overkill
• new OEM timing chain tensioners
• re-using chain guides
• re-using OEM main block bolts. No need to line bore or pin mains

Closed decking the block was a difficult choice. There was a little damage on my block from where the piston bottomed out due to the bent rod. It was all checked and there was no distortion and my builder was very confident the block could be re-used. I just felt that extra bit of insurance with a closed deck was within my budget - especially as I'm not spending big $$ on the head - so just do it.

[86Tony]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Good, if somebody can properly build and drive a 500+ hp twin, it would be you. For me, as I wrote before, I wouldn't try.

He has a motec m150, traction control setup 500whp will be a a breeze to drive

[Kiske]

Originally Posted by Hags86

After talking with a bunch of engine builders and tuners the build list has changed a little since I started this thread.

My approach is to spend as much is as sensible on the short block without any compromises and then as little as needed on the heads.

This is what's on order:

• Outfront FA20 closed deck block, machined for 1/2" ARP head studs
• JE MLS head gasket to suit block/studs
• CP Carillo custom 12.5:1 86.25mm pistons
• CP Carillo forged rods. Both my local engine builder and Outfront strongly recommended these. They have a sawtooth profile machined in the parting line on the big end. As the rod is angled this extra surface perpendicular to the direction of the force helps keep the big end and resists the natural tendency to go oval shaped.
• OEM crankshaft, linished and polished
• lightly recondition heads, just re-touch the valve seats
• OEM valves. Given the high compression and not super-crazy HP aim the consensus was these are big enough. If not the just add another 1/2 PSI boost. I can always spend money on the head later without having to touch the short block if I get this wrond.
• GSC Single valve springs. The beehive seemed overkill
• new OEM timing chain tensioners
• re-using chain guides
• re-using OEM main block bolts. No need to line bore or pin mains

Closed decking the block was a difficult choice. There was a little damage on my block from where the piston bottomed out due to the bent rod. It was all checked and there was no distortion and my builder was very confident the block could be re-used. I just felt that extra bit of insurance with a closed deck was within my budget - especially as I'm not spending big $$ on the head - so just do it.

Add King XPG Main/Rod Bearings. Also the Reimax oil pump gears before the front cover goes back on.

[whataboutbob]

Might also want to consider WPC treatment on friction surfaces. +1 for the Reimax oil pump gear. I chose to use one for my build.

[Hags86]

Originally Posted by Kiske

Add King XPG Main/Rod Bearings. Also the Reimax oil pump gears before the front cover goes back on.

Originally Posted by whataboutbob

Might also want to consider WPC treatment on friction surfaces. +1 for the Reimax oil pump gear. I chose to use one for my build.

Thanks guys. I'm really interested in the Reimax oil pump. They make two versions one being the same size and the other a larger capacity a comes with a spacer and needs some machining on the timing cover. Which one are you referring too? Why did you choose this - was there are particular issue you were trying to address?

My problem is that I don't get enough oil pressure at high revs and high temps. Say 45-50PSI at 7000rpm at oil temps of 115C (240F) with a 20w-40 weight oil. Does the Reimax fix this.

Considering putting in the high capacity Reimax pump and some flow restrictors to the heads. I just get conflicting advice about this.

[whataboutbob]

I chose the large capacity version on the advice of my motor builder, BlueMoon Performance. I have the EB SC and my goal was to make the motor as bulletproof as I could within my budget. I also put a BlueMoon baffle in the oil pan. I may run an Accusump too. We WPC'd the crank, crank bearings, rods, pistons, rings, etc. All of this is ideally to prevent spinning a bearing if possible.



I'm still in the process of putting the car back together, so I don't have any numbers with regards to oil pressure with my configuration, yet. I'll be running Motul 20-50 oil.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Hags86

Considering putting in the high capacity Reimax pump and some flow restrictors to the heads. I just get conflicting advice about this.

What advice are you getting against flow restrictors? From what I've read it seems the oil pump mods aren't very effective because the heads absorb the majority of the flowrate increase.

[firekat]

Stumbled across this article:

http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/educat...s-of-the-fa20/