How bulletproof are our engines when N/A?

[TommyW]

Over revs are usually from missed downshifting. I think most people think they're from over revving from acceleration

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by dostoyevsky

I see, curious though how the fuck did someone manage to blow this engine at stock hp?

Originally Posted by Somerandom18

Revving to 8k?

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or more. 5th to 2nd can be very very bad.

Originally Posted by reeves

Revving to 8K has been fine [for me], doing it every now & then. I don't track or race my car though, so it's just for a split second when I do hit 8K. If my motor ever blows up, I'll be sure to let everyone know

A split second is all it takes. Just a matter of time.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

They've probably built 200,000 of these at this point, not every single one came out perfect from the factory, and many many of them were driven very hard exposing weaknesses.

All mass produced engines have a measurable premature failure rate. ALL of them.

Oiling issues are the most common along with a few valves coming apart. There was also a tune issue on the first year of production cars that created knock under fast shifting at high rpm that damaged the direct injector seals, a few blew up from that.

This^^^
I would guess that most that had issues have either already shown them or they were fixed. Of course there could be a few sneak through still.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Over revs are usually from missed downshifting. I think most people think they're from over revving from acceleration

Yep! Impossible to over rev while accelerating since you hit the limiter and the fuel gets cut. You can bounce off that limiter all the time with no issues it is when you manage to go past it with a bad downshift that all hell breaks loose.

[Shady195]

Originally Posted by dostoyevsky

So say, would 250whp be reliable with this engine, and for supporting mods.. say: catch can + oil cooler?

Originally Posted by Turdinator

Revs and oil pressure are the issue not power levels. If you could make that power below 8k rpm and keep oil temps and pressures intact it would be ok... most likely.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is very difficult to get 250whp with NA and for sure you'll need to increase the engine displacement with boring and honing.

As others mentioned the main engine issue is the low oil pressure on high rpms, but this is an effect and not the cause. The issue is that the engine is getting very hot and it is a reason that the stock tuning has unusually rich AFRs. It is clear that they were trying to keep it running cooler and not the b*shit that the tuning was wrong. An oil cooler will solve the issue partially. The revised engine (2016+) has internals with lower friction and this helps more.

HP isn't as big of an issue as torque is.

Oil pressure is an Achilles heal on these motors for people who really push their cars on the track, bu t for most people it shouldnt be an issue.

The rods are another very weak point of the FA20, quite a few guys have blown up their cars by lugging the motors a little in higher gears. Torque turns the stock rods into wet noodles.

With all of that said, "is it safe" is the wrong mindset to have. As someone else said "If I fuck this up, can I pay to fix it", if the answer is yes then add some power, if no then forget about it until you can. There are guys running 400+ WHP on stock motors and the track who are still going strong, there are guys who are making under 300WHP and have punched a window in the block cruising.

[rb6freak]

Originally Posted by dostoyevsky

I see, curious though how the fuck did someone manage to blow this engine at stock hp?

I've personally seen a stock, automatic transition BRZ blow up on the track in 100 degree weather with an oil cooler and brake pads as the only mod.

It all depends on how you drive and treat your car, the tune, fuel, maintenance etc...

[dattran86]

If you have an early 13' model,

assuming it would be better to get a good tune rather than staying with the crappy tune from the factory?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by dattran86

If you have an early 13' model,

assuming it would be better to get a good tune rather than staying with the crappy tune from the factory?

What makes you think the tune from the factory is crappy?

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by dattran86

If you have an early 13' model,

assuming it would be better to get a good tune rather than staying with the crappy tune from the factory?

Tunes, like everything else automotive design related, are a compromise.
The oem tuners have to consider power, economy and emissions. I am guessing these parameters are mutually exclusive.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by dattran86

If you have an early 13' model,

assuming it would be better to get a good tune rather than staying with the crappy tune from the factory?

Originally Posted by nikitopo

What makes you think the tune from the factory is crappy?

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Tunes, like everything else automotive design related, are a compromise.
The oem tuners have to consider power, economy and emissions. I am guessing these parameters are mutually exclusive.

Yes any before early 2013 had an error in the factory tune tunes before ZA1JA01x had fhe issue all round the world. The transient ignition retard setting was incorrect setting was disabled above 5000 rpm from memory which meant it was always disabled during high rpm shifts. The A01x and above roms from factory corrected this and also increased the amount of ignition retard applied during high rpm shifting.

This was only rearly an issue for people who shifted at or near redline and was exagerated by low quality fuels. Was also known as the Direct injector seal fix but was actually a severe knock fix on high rpm shifts.

Below is the transient retard tables from early to late 2013 both stock roms\tune Note also that prior to early 2013 the rpm setting error meant that these tables hence transient retard was completly disabled in early roms

[MurderousPandas]

Originally Posted by dostoyevsky

Hey guys, I got a question, how bulletproof are our engines when N/A?

How much power can these engines handle and last the life of the car?

I think NA's only problem is heat. I'm just about as far as i can go NA without breaking open the block, and i've had nothing but reliability for the past 70k miles. I drive a '13.

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[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by steve99

This was only rearly an issue for people who shifted at or near redline and was exagerated by low quality fuels. Was also known as the Direct injector seal fix but was actually a severe knock fix on high rpm shifts.

Below is the transient retard tables from early to late 2013 both stock roms\tune Note also that prior to early 2013 the rpm setting error meant that these tables hence transient retard was completly disabled in early roms

I remember the injector seal fix issue. Unfortunately, it was one of the main problems of the 1st generation cars. It was dependent on fuel quality and also how the car (or how hard) was driven. As you noted it was fixed with an upgraded stock rom\tune. There were also some small engine internal changes at the end of production year 2013.

[Rougenite]

I've been beating the crap out of mine.

Don't let it warm up in the mornings (I lived in Hawaii, Calif and Texas though)
Constant hammering through gears.
Bounce off the rev limit all the time.
Using an OFT Flex Fuel Beta tune (only performance item on car)
Dealer did not put the filler cap back on after an oil change and I ran ~3 quarts low.
Currently running low on coolant.
Did a 9k mile oil change recently

Yeah its my daily, no I dont have another vehicle. If it dies, it dies. Just gives me a reason to build it for high boost.

[reeves]

Originally Posted by Rougenite

Currently running low on coolant.

I've been running low on coolant (slightly below minimum line) since I bought my car 4+ years ago lol. Never bothered to top it off.. after a while, I just forgot about it. I finally bought a gallon of Subaru coolant last month, I'll top it off eventually.

[Rougenite]

Originally Posted by reeves

I've been running low on coolant (slightly below minimum line) since I bought my car 4+ years ago lol. Never bothered to top it off.. after a while, I just forgot about it. I finally bought a gallon of Subaru coolant last month, I'll top it off eventually.

thats how mine has been, havent messed with it ever. I have some in my closet just havent put it in