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Old 04-02-2013, 11:55 AM   #29
CSG Mike
 
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Originally Posted by B L U E S L A T E View Post
April fool's trolling?
I have some excellent photoshop skills.

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Old 04-02-2013, 04:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03Z33 View Post
There is no standard testing for tw. They can put whatever number they want on the tire, it's only used as a guideline or recommendation. DOT have nothing to do with it. My OEM Yaris tires have 140 tw and last well over 60,000 miles. Some low end generic tires are actually pretty grippy but have artificialy inflated tw of 340+ because they think that will get them more sales.

You would hope in todays era of readily available information that someone (such as yourself) would atleast have a gander if not a full fledged peek into what you are attempting to school people on before you start spewing non-sense...

Oh well like they say opinions are like elbows...everyone has one...the difference is some of us know the difference between an elbow and a mandible...
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:40 PM   #31
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I saw it myself on the 31st and my eyes were like O.O
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:42 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by SkullWorks View Post
according to Wikipedia, a manufacturer can under rate a tire (call a 200 treadwear tire 140) but you cannot overstate the treadwear of a tire, (cannot call 140 200)

UTQG is a guideline to be used by all manufacturers but as described above they can say a tire is softer for "street cred" but you cannot over inflate the number to be higher than actually measured....measurements are based on milage VS "Course Monitoring Tires" which are made to a spec to limit variability....

so that leaves 3 options,

1.) the tires are harder now than they have been and therefore $hitty...we just lost the best known secret in track tires

2.) Hankook has been underrating the treadwear and is now rating appropriately to get more use in more racing series where >200 TW is not allowed

3.) Hankook is now lying about the treadwear and is in danger of getting nailed by the DOT for incorrectly stating the tires wear characteristics.


My personal experience with the OG 140TW tires is that they are not under rated they really are just sticky as all hell. Mike's input above leads me to believe scenario #1 is true, but I hope we are both wrong and he simply cannot drive
It's option 2. These tires have been under rated for treadwear since they were new because many people who think "its lower treadwear so it must be stickier!". Andy Hollis, who is an autocrosser and journalist (if you read the GRM tire tests, he does most of them) and is very close to all of the manufacturers who make the EPS tires that compete in the SCCA ST class has confirmed that Hankook under rated the tires.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:52 PM   #33
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Tirerack's statement:

Quote:
Tire Rack's official update regarding the subject:

Hankook Tire has changed the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Treadwear rating of their Ventus R-S3 Z222 Extreme Performance Summer tire.
UTQG ratings for Treadwear, Traction and Temperature are based on tests conducted by tire manufacturers and reported to the NationalHighway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). These regulations allow tiremanufacturers to under-rate their tires’ capabilities, but prohibit over-rating them. UTQG ratings are required to be branded on each tire’s sidewall and printed on the tire label.
When the Ventus R-S3 Z222 was introduced in spring of 2009, Hankook assigned 140 Treadwear rating to match the UTQG Treadwear rating required by car club competition rules. However subsequent Hankook wear data revealed the tire line provided equivalent wear to its predecessor (Ventus R-S2) and earned the same 200 Treadwear rating. This is also supported by Tire Rack survey results and feedback from our customers indicate the Ventus R-S3 Z222 provides equivalent wear to other tires already featuring similar UTQG Treadwear ratings.
With changes in car club competition rules now requiring higher UTQG Treadwear ratings, Hankook decided it was time to change the rating to better reflect their tire’s capabilities.
Since 140- and 200-Treadwear rated tires are available, both appear on NHTSA’s safercar.gov website for the Ventus R-S3 Z222 line.
Since no changes were made to tire compound or construction, all Ventus R-S3 Z222 tire sizes continue to use the same Hankook S-Code (part number) and both 140- and 200-Treadwear-rated tires are compatible when put into service as singles, pairs or in any combination.
In order to help drivers confirm which tire they will receive, Tire Rack has separated the tires and listed the Treadwear rating on its product Specs tab. Changes to the website should appear tomorrow, April 5th.
All marketing based, no difference in the tire at all...
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:00 PM   #34
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If it hasn't been noted, this has 100% to do with SCCA rules for "street" tires.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #35
03Z33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwx View Post
Tirerack's statement:

Quote:
Tire Rack's official update regarding the subject:

Hankook Tire has changed the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Treadwear rating of their Ventus R-S3 Z222 Extreme Performance Summer tire.
UTQG ratings for Treadwear, Traction and Temperature are based on tests conducted by tire manufacturers and reported to the NationalHighway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). These regulations allow tiremanufacturers to under-rate their tires’ capabilities, but prohibit over-rating them. UTQG ratings are required to be branded on each tire’s sidewall and printed on the tire label.
When the Ventus R-S3 Z222 was introduced in spring of 2009, Hankook assigned 140 Treadwear rating to match the UTQG Treadwear rating required by car club competition rules. However subsequent Hankook wear data revealed the tire line provided equivalent wear to its predecessor (Ventus R-S2) and earned the same 200 Treadwear rating. This is also supported by Tire Rack survey results and feedback from our customers indicate the Ventus R-S3 Z222 provides equivalent wear to other tires already featuring similar UTQG Treadwear ratings.
With changes in car club competition rules now requiring higher UTQG Treadwear ratings, Hankook decided it was time to change the rating to better reflect their tire’s capabilities.
Since 140- and 200-Treadwear rated tires are available, both appear on NHTSA’s safercar.gov website for the Ventus R-S3 Z222 line.
Since no changes were made to tire compound or construction, all Ventus R-S3 Z222 tire sizes continue to use the same Hankook S-Code (part number) and both 140- and 200-Treadwear-rated tires are compatible when put into service as singles, pairs or in any combination.
In order to help drivers confirm which tire they will receive, Tire Rack has separated the tires and listed the Treadwear rating on its product Specs tab. Changes to the website should appear tomorrow, April 5th.

All marketing based, no difference in the tire at all...
Thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullWorks View Post
You would hope in todays era of readily available information that someone (such as yourself) would atleast have a gander if not a full fledged peek into what you are attempting to school people on before you start spewing non-sense...

Oh well like they say opinions are like elbows...everyone has one...the difference is some of us know the difference between an elbow and a mandible...
I'm waiting for your apology.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:13 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 03Z33 View Post
Thanks!




I'm waiting for your apology.

Keep waiting then buddy,

Your post I commented on was wrong, my previous post you contradicted was correct, the post you just quoted above also disproves the post you made, that i commented on.

so instead of an apology i extend to you an invitation to improve your reading comprehension.


Lookie here I'll even quote my original post, so you don't have to go look for it.

Quote:
according to Wikipedia, a manufacturer can under rate a tire (call a 200 treadwear tire 140) but you cannot overstate the treadwear of a tire, (cannot call 140 200)

UTQG is a guideline to be used by all manufacturers but as described above they can say a tire is softer for "street cred" but you cannot over inflate the number to be higher than actually measured....measurements are based on milage VS "Course Monitoring Tires" which are made to a spec to limit variability....

so that leaves 3 options,

1.) the tires are harder now than they have been and therefore $hitty...we just lost the best known secret in track tires

2.) Hankook has been underrating the treadwear and is now rating appropriately to get more use in more racing series where >200 TW is not allowed

3.) Hankook is now lying about the treadwear and is in danger of getting nailed by the DOT for incorrectly stating the tires wear characteristics.


My personal experience with the OG 140TW tires is that they are not under rated they really are just sticky as all hell. Mike's input above leads me to believe scenario #1 is true, but I hope we are both wrong and he simply cannot drive
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:23 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullWorks View Post
Keep waiting then buddy,

Your post I commented on was wrong, my previous post you contradicted was correct, the post you just quoted above also disproves the post you made, that i commented on.

so instead of an apology i extend to you an invitation to improve your reading comprehension.


Lookie here I'll even quote my original post, so you don't have to go look for it.
It's all right, I wasn't holding my breath or anything... too dumb, too proud,
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:31 PM   #38
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Clearly I am dumb as bricks....

And proud of it


I'm still waiting on the quote you promised ~4 months ago for the Z33 suspension too.....BTW

it's not personal, but bad info is bad info, you had the bad info I had to call BS,
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:17 PM   #39
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Can't we all just get along!!!


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Old 04-05-2013, 11:35 AM   #40
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Group hug please.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:04 PM   #41
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Just had my rs3 mounted.. Also 200tw
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:49 PM   #42
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I just ran a set at Global Time Attack in Atlanta and freaked also that I could only get the 200s. Found the note on Tire Rack. Of course the tire people mounted one of my tires backwards...Doh!

The treadwear game has been going on forever! It used to be rate them low so people think they are fast to now lets make them fast but tell the rule makers they are slow
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