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Old 12-09-2013, 02:37 PM   #1
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Question Oil coolers = lower temps + oil starvation?

The theory goes like this:

If it's possible or likely for our cars to experience oil surge at high Gs on the circuit, particularly when fitted with R compound rubber (as mentioned here)

...and if the stock oil pump has to work harder to move the larger volumes of oil around and/or maintain oil pressures when fitting an aftermarket oil cooler (as mentioned here)...

...then might fitting an typical oil cooler kit on our car possibly result in a greater chance of experiencing catastrophic oil starvation issues on track given that the stock oil pump, which might already have surge issues, would be working even harder to handle the oil cooler?

I'm seeing oil temps of around 108-110 degrees from just rigorous daily driving (water temps in the 90s), let alone out on track, so immediately thought of adding an oil cooler. Also thinking of sticking R compounds (Pirelli Trofeo Rs, R888s, NT01s or similar) on the car for serious track duty but then this whole 'starvation' theory popped into my head.

Sorry if this is a dumb theory. I am very curious to get some proper insight on this from people more in the know than I am, especially before I drop the $$$ on an oil cooler kit.

My tuner was talking about running a modified oil cooler kit with an uprated or separate oil pump to cure this issue and possibly lower oil temps further. They're actually planning on prototyping and testing something similar out soon. Curious what peeps might think of that approach as well.

@CSG Mike @Racecomp Engineering @robispec - brainpower and knowledge would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:55 PM   #2
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Semi slicks, or slicks will possibly make you experience an oil surge. I know Toyota NZ has developed a baffled sump for the TR86 race cars to help prevent the issue.

The TR86 car's all run oil coolers and full slick tyres and with the addition of the baffled sump don't appear to have any problems on any of the tracks tested here in NZ.

Unfortunately they don't want to sell the baffle plates to the general public just yet



BTW, I don't think an oil cooler would do anything to change the issue with the oil surge, because when you install the oil cooler, you add more oil to fill it up. The oil passing through the cooler is the oil already picked up by the pump so doesn't affect oil starvation at all. My theory being is that the oil cooler has no air in it, so even under high G cornering, oil going into the cooler = oil coming out. If you had air in there, then the air could be displaced with oil under a hard corner, but I think your sump would give you issues before the oil cooler would. (Could be wrong on that, but I am sure someone will correct me if I am)
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:23 PM   #3
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While we don't specifically log oil pressure, we haven't seen any signs of oil starvation. The stickiest tire we've run is a Maxxis RC1 235, and I've also spent time in aero equipped 245 RS3 cars.

I don't believe I saw any issues with I drove Robispec's car on Hoosiers either... but it was a very brief (and conservative driving) session.

@Element Tuning Phil would be the most knowledgeable person to go to for this.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:29 PM   #4
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this is always a potential issue with wet sump cars, Baffle plates and the likes are far cheaper and more accepted solutions than Dry Sump or as you called it "extra oil pumps"

Unless you have some janky oil cooler that is adding an actual restriction to the system there shouldn't be an issue, yes you added length but once the hose is full the only restrictions that should be in the system are the Filter and the Bearing clearances, free flowing oil cooler cores and hose don't add significant load because you aren't pumping against a head (vertical change)
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:39 PM   #5
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Thanks for the info guys. Knowledge is power.

Feeling a little more confident going ahead with sticky tires and an oil cooler already.
@lazyluka Thanks for the tip on the baffled pan. Good to know that others are pushing the car & doing thorough, independent R&D. I'll keep an eye out for info on how those TR86 cars come along.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:41 PM   #6
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our cooler has almost no restriction and less than1meter of total hose length.
it also adds 1 liter capacity and adds pressurized volume to damp out the surging and keeps the oil under 110 c during racing conditions this allows the oil to act as a COOLENT this is very to important in the head...and keeping control of the cams with less viscosity variability due to the low swings in oil temp.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:14 AM   #7
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We've had zero oil issues or any issue really with both our cars here that see plenty of track time.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robispec View Post
our cooler has almost no restriction and less than1meter of total hose length.
it also adds 1 liter capacity and adds pressurized volume to damp out the surging and keeps the oil under 110 c during racing conditions this allows the oil to act as a COOLENT this is very to important in the head...and keeping control of the cams with less viscosity variability due to the low swings in oil temp.
I have Robi's cooler as well and ran at Roebling this weekend on DOT slicks. Weather was cold and damp so not the best test but I never saw oil temps above 220 compared to 280 plus in August without a cooler. In theory I would think having the additional oil in the system "above" the pan should provide additional protection from momentary sloshing /starvation issues.
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