Bringing up the Torque?!

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by subatoy

I rephrased my question.
I'm looking for torque numbers higher than the HP numbers just like Crawford performance's car.

If it's axle-snapping, driveshaft shattering, clutch roasting torque that you want, there is no replacement for displacement.

6 liters and 500+ hp should satisfy your needs. ~$20k for a turn key install from Weapons Grade Performance.



/thread

[AVOturboworld]

The problem is that whp is a measurement of torque x rpm, and because of that you can, and will, see cars that look absolutely amazing in terms of a peak hp number, but will be gutless in daily driving.

For simple peak horsepower comparisons, a big V8 with a huge lump of torque at 2000rpm can and will easily lose out to a small boosted four that makes all of it's torque past 7000rpm. Keep moving your actual torque production to the right of 5252rpm on a chart, and your bragging rights increase exponentially. Keep moving your actual torque production to the left of 5252rpm on a chart, and your daily driving pleasure will increase exponentially (YMMV, everybody has different preferences, etc).

[subatoy]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

The problem is that whp is a measurement of torque x rpm, and because of that you can, and will, see cars that look absolutely amazing in terms of a peak hp number, but will be gutless in daily driving.

For simple peak horsepower comparisons, a big V8 with a huge lump of torque at 2000rpm can and will easily lose out to a small boosted four that makes all of it's torque past 7000rpm. Keep moving your actual torque production to the right of 5252rpm on a chart, and your bragging rights increase exponentially. Keep moving your actual torque production to the left of 5252rpm on a chart, and your daily driving pleasure will increase exponentially (YMMV, everybody has different preferences, etc).

Thanks for that reponse, that's exactly what I want, daily driving pleasure. I DO NOT care about wining any races or bragging rights. You really put in a great way. I would appreciate if you would tell me what needs to be done to achieve this in your experience.

[charged86]

Originally Posted by pheoxs

Why though?

Why seek more torque with less HP when you can use a properly sized turbo and have the same amount of torque but hold boost to redline and get more power.

The 1.8T/2.0T power you are talking about is probably a flashed car that boosts to 20lbs down low then tapers off to ~12 by redline, all low end power and no top end. You know what they usually do for mods? Swap in a larger turbo (K04 etc) to make more power and hold their boost to redline.

My 1.8t never tappered to 12 when target boost was 20

[AVOturboworld]

Originally Posted by subatoy

Thanks for that reponse, that's exactly what I want, daily driving pleasure. I DO NOT care about wining any races or bragging rights. You really put in a great way. I would appreciate if you would tell me what needs to be done to achieve this in your experience.

Naturally aspirated, somehow move to a larger motor.

Forced Induction - rightsizing, really. Pick a system that comes in early. I can only speak for the turbo side, obviously, but it's a balancing act of a smaller hotside on the turbo vs. the compressor side sizing, plus overall efficiency of the system.

Simplifying it immensely, a turbocharger has a range of operation, say roughly around 5000rpm overall. So you are picking a turbocharger based on where you want to place that 5000rpm of performance. For instance, we chose a turbocharger setup that performs well between 2000~7000rpm, meaning it will start seeing positive boost at 2000 under full load (4th gear+) and will start tapering off after 7000rpm. Or you could choose to do it to start around 3000 and taper off after 8000. So on and so forth. It sounds like the Crawford setup, for instance, was designed around a spool starting at 1500 and ending fairly early (thus the lower whp than torque).

[BRZPDX]

I understand what you mean, and its a tough decision since the whole point of this car is to keep it in high rev to wring out as much power as your can, and with predictable power, its easier to drift/corner without a turbo kicking in mid corner.

It reminds me of sports bikes, and down shifting at the right moment to keep that high rev so you can punch out of corners. It feels more alive during corners when keeping high rev as well.

I am afraid that any FI (twin screw included) will compromise the N/A response from the engine, and you will need to relearn how to drive this car entirely.

The purist side of me always ponder about people who want +300whp on this car, "why did you even purchase this car in the first place..?". Then the power junkie side of me says, "shit because it will be out of control fun! and it will sound cool".

So as a noob, I want to ask the pro's, will any FI compromise the response of the engine? (SC = leeching from pulley, TC = waiting for turbo spool). Or is it minimal?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

I understand what you mean, and its a tough decision since the whole point of this car is to keep it in high rev to wring out as much power as your can, and with predictable power, its easier to drift/corner without a turbo kicking in mid corner.

It reminds me of sports bikes, and down shifting at the right moment to keep that high rev so you can punch out of corners. It feels more alive during corners when keeping high rev as well.

I am afraid that any FI (twin screw included) will compromise the N/A response from the engine, and you will need to relearn how to drive this car entirely.

The purist side of me always ponder about people who want +300whp on this car, "why did you even purchase this car in the first place..?". Then the power junkie side of me says, "shit because it will be out of control fun! and it will sound cool".

So as a noob, I want to ask the pro's, will any FI compromise the response of the engine? (SC = leeching from pulley, TC = waiting for turbo spool). Or is it minimal?

It's one of those things you worry about until you finally drive the car with a turbo, then promptly forget about. Relearning how to drive the car effectively is a small price to pay for not getting passed by minivans in your sports car.

[SillySaxon]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

I understand what you mean, and its a tough decision since the whole point of this car is to keep it in high rev to wring out as much power as your can, and with predictable power, its easier to drift/corner without a turbo kicking in mid corner.

It reminds me of sports bikes, and down shifting at the right moment to keep that high rev so you can punch out of corners. It feels more alive during corners when keeping high rev as well.

I am afraid that any FI (twin screw included) will compromise the N/A response from the engine, and you will need to relearn how to drive this car entirely.

The purist side of me always ponder about people who want +300whp on this car, "why did you even purchase this car in the first place..?". Then the power junkie side of me says, "shit because it will be out of control fun! and it will sound cool".

So as a noob, I want to ask the pro's, will any FI compromise the response of the engine? (SC = leeching from pulley, TC = waiting for turbo spool). Or is it minimal?

A Supercharger will often times mitigate that Turbo boost randomly kicking in. You'll get a much more smooth power induction.
SC leech from pulley is in my opinion an outdated and invalid argument. You'll never see the fact that it's pulley run decrease anything on the car.
The Vortech SC kicks in a bit later than a twin screw or any roots style because it will give you that higher RPM power that this car is built for.
This does give you a little bit of a boost lag like a turbo but not nearly as noticeable if at all.

[AVOturboworld]

SC leech from the pulley isn't outdated, as in, nothing has changed that fact over the years.

Here is a comparison of a turbo vs. a supercharger when they meet at the same boost at upper rpm's. Both on pump gas, full exhaust, tuned, etc.



With equal boost from both at 7200rpm, that difference you are seeing there is mostly pulley drag.

[pheoxs]

Originally Posted by charged86

My 1.8t never tappered to 12 when target boost was 20

Sorry, depends if you have the K03 or K03s turbo stock. There was a few different 1.8t configurations

[charged86]

Originally Posted by pheoxs

Sorry, depends if you have the K03 or K03s turbo stock. There was a few different 1.8t configurations

Oh ya I went big turbo. Twice lol now 3rd rebuild

[Whitigir]

Bring up the torque in an engine = bigger displacement , or Forced Air.

Sroker kit your engine or Swap in a v12 or Get a Turbo/SC system, with a tune, and proper supporting mods.

The most fun in daily driving = high torque at low RPM range.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by charged86

Oh ya I went big turbo. Twice lol now 3rd rebuild

Originally Posted by charged86

My 1.8t never tappered to 12 when target boost was 20

A BT 1.8T will have gobs of lag and now power down low anymore so it's irrelevant in this discussion.

The OP wants torque delivery like a stock 1.8T or 2.0T, not a bunch of lag then an explosion of power above ~4k rpm.

For the OP, a twin screw supercharger is going to be your best bet for a big bump in torque across the rpm range since they build full boost at any RPM.

[charged86]

Originally Posted by wparsons

A BT 1.8T will have gobs of lag and now power down low anymore so it's irrelevant in this discussion.

The OP wants torque delivery like a stock 1.8T or 2.0T, not a bunch of lag then an explosion of power above ~4k rpm.

For the OP, a twin screw supercharger is going to be your best bet for a big bump in torque across the rpm range since they build full boost at any RPM.

Again your opinion.