2017 BRZ Performance Package C&D Lightning Lap

[lynk26]

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p-2017-feature

Man, I really want to see what it could do on a dry track! Seems like it could knock off at least another 2-3 seconds.

Here's the lap times for the other cars tested this year:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...l-data-feature

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by lynk26

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p-2017-feature

Man, I really want to see what it could do on a dry track! Seems like it could knock off at least another 2-3 seconds.

Here's the lap times for the other cars tested this year:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...l-data-feature

doesnt the article say that the water added about 1.2 seconds to the time?

[BDKane01]

The BRZ is consistently on the bottom. Haha. Look at the competition!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by BDKane01

The BRZ is consistently on the bottom. Haha. Look at the competition!

Yep Now people need to go look up the price tags on all those other cars. They bloody well better be higher up the lists for times.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep Now people need to go look up the price tags on all those other cars. They bloody well better be higher up the lists for times.

Yeah, although it did end up at the bottom of the LL1 class. It's quite a bit slower than a similarly priced Civic Si. I would still take the BRZ: uncorrupted handling and aesthetics are a fair penalty for five seconds of lap time that I'll never use.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

Yeah, although it did end up at the bottom of the LL1 class. It's quite a bit slower than a similarly priced Civic Si. I would still take the BRZ: uncorrupted handling and aesthetics are a fair penalty for five seconds of lap time that I'll never use.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy just how much slower the BRZ is compared to everything else. I'm sure the Civic Si's FWD gave it an advantage in the wet weather, but that doesn't really explain why the Fiat is so much faster. I'm guessing the BRZ was on the Primacy tires? What kind of tires does the Fiat ship out with?

[totopo]

First off, Lightning lap blows and is a joke. Mostly amateur drivers, occasionally pro drivers, different days and conditions. That being said:

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep Now people need to go look up the price tags on all those other cars. They bloody well better be higher up the lists for times.

Are you being sarcastic?

Subaru WRX Performance Package (2018) 3:11.5 $32,205
Honda Civic Si (2017) 3:14.6 $23,900
Mini Clubman John Cooper Works (2017) 3:16.0 $35,100
Fiat 124 Spider Abarth (2017) 3:16.9 $24,995
Subaru BRZ Performance Package (2017) 3:19.7 $29,960

It's closer in price to the WRX (-2k) than it is to the Si (+6k)

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Yeah, it's pretty crazy just how much slower the BRZ is compared to everything else. I'm sure the Civic Si's FWD gave it an advantage in the wet weather, but that doesn't really explain why the Fiat is so much faster. I'm guessing the BRZ was on the Primacy tires? What kind of tires does the Fiat ship out with?

? The mx5 is pretty close to faster than the BRZ in times. mx5 is 155/149 hp/tq @2330 lbs and fiat is basically same car at 160/184 @2430. seems reasonable.

Is rwd better than fwd in the rain? wouldn't rwd be better because it's even more traction limited than normal? It's harder to drive, but shouldn't it be faster overall?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by totopo

First off, Lightning lap blows and is a joke. Mostly amateur drivers, occasionally pro drivers, different days and conditions. That being said:



Are you being sarcastic?

Subaru WRX Performance Package (2018) 3:11.5 $32,205
Honda Civic Si (2017) 3:14.6 $23,900
Mini Clubman John Cooper Works (2017) 3:16.0 $35,100
Fiat 124 Spider Abarth (2017) 3:16.9 $24,995
Subaru BRZ Performance Package (2017) 3:19.7 $29,960

It's closer in price to the WRX (-2k) than it is to the Si (+7k)



? The mx5 is pretty close to faster than the BRZ in times. mx5 is 155/149 hp/tq @2330 lbs and fiat is basically same car at 160/184 @2430. seems reasonable.

Is rwd better than fwd in the rain? wouldn't rwd be better because it's even more traction limited than normal? It's harder to drive, but shouldn't it be faster overall?

So that is 4 out of 18. Those ones just barely beat it.
My point was that the ones that blew it away should have.

[Somerandom18]

Wish the fucking car came with performance tires instead of Grand touring.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by totopo

First off, Lightning lap blows and is a joke. Mostly amateur drivers, occasionally pro drivers, different days and conditions. That being said:



Are you being sarcastic?

Subaru WRX Performance Package (2018) 3:11.5 $32,205
Honda Civic Si (2017) 3:14.6 $23,900
Mini Clubman John Cooper Works (2017) 3:16.0 $35,100
Fiat 124 Spider Abarth (2017) 3:16.9 $24,995
Subaru BRZ Performance Package (2017) 3:19.7 $29,960

It's closer in price to the WRX (-2k) than it is to the Si (+7k)



? The mx5 is pretty close to faster than the BRZ in times. mx5 is 155/149 hp/tq @2330 lbs and fiat is basically same car at 160/184 @2430. seems reasonable.

Is rwd better than fwd in the rain? wouldn't rwd be better because it's even more traction limited than normal? It's harder to drive, but shouldn't it be faster overall?

The Fiata is roughly 3 whole seconds faster, that seems like a lot considering how close the car's weight/power ratio is compared to the 86.


I've always been under the impression that FWD has the upper hand over RWD in rainy/snowy conditions. I could be wrong though.

[WolfpackS2k]

Around a track like VIR, with low horsepower cars ( >250hp ), on a wet track I would think FWD would be more of a liability than asset. Hard acceleration transfers weight OFF the drive wheels, instead of ON them, like with a RWD car. However, when making relatively high speed turns while pushing against the limits of adhesion, the FWD car will start understeering gradually, which is considerably more confidence inspiring than gradual oversteer the BRZ may experience (talking about the 60-90 mph turns). Braking in wet conditions should heavily favor a RWD car over a FWD, as with more mass over the rear of the car the rear brakes can do more work.

The Civic Si probably benefits from it's wider 235 section width tires, which it is using as a crutch to partially offset it's horrible weight distribution and crappy suspension design.

[imnotsureaboutbrz]

I enjoy reading and watching Car & Driver's Lightning lap coverage. But for me... this year... I was just happy we were invited to the party...

[brewdad16]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Around a track like VIR, with low horsepower cars ( >250hp ), on a wet track I would think FWD would be more of a liability than asset. Hard acceleration transfers weight OFF the drive wheels, instead of ON them, like with a RWD car. However, when making relatively high speed turns while pushing against the limits of adhesion, the FWD car will start understeering gradually, which is considerably more confidence inspiring than gradual oversteer the BRZ may experience (talking about the 60-90 mph turns). Braking in wet conditions should heavily favor a RWD car over a FWD, as with more mass over the rear of the car the rear brakes can do more work.

The Civic Si probably benefits from it's wider 235 section width tires, which it is using as a crutch to partially offset it's horrible weight distribution and crappy suspension design.

front wheel drive is easier to drive in the wet - that weight transfer off the wheels under acceleration yeah, but, as they slip you accelerate less weight transfers back and it partially regulates itself. You're usually at high enough speeds on track that you're not going to roast the tires off the corner with a stock Civic anyway. Well, maybe the inside front (yay open diff!) a little but nothing you can't modulate the throttle to manage.

front wheel drive is also prone to understeer, which isn't the greatest but is confidence inspiring in slippery conditions.

also the higher weight on the nose helps fight hydroplaning better than a more balanced car - usually the fronts float first.

Watch stuff like Continental Tire Series or Pirelli World Challenge with pro & semi-pro drivers with mixed drivetrain layouts and such - you usually see front and all wheel drive cars climb the standings pretty quick with just a little bit of moisture on the track.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by totopo

First off, Lightning lap blows and is a joke. Mostly amateur drivers, occasionally pro drivers, different days and conditions. That being said:

They're not pros, but they're not bad by any stretch of the imagination. I recall their best driver's time with the Corvette Z06 was about 2 to 3 seconds off GM's factory driver. Not too shabby.