I think some people need a reality check...

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

Toyota Yaris = McDonald's hamburger ($2.00)

Scion FR-S - Denny's hamburger ($4.00)

$50,000 new car - real restaurant style hamburger ($8.00+)

Now I don't know much about this $25k car expectations thing, but I do know one thing: if you think Dennys is measurably better than McDonalds you're batsiht crazy.

[Chewie4299]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

But price IS the issue. Toyota makes higher priced vehicles and has the whole Lexus line of 'high quality' cars.
Do you think they spend the same amount of R&D on Scion as they do Lexus?
Do you think they use the same quality of materials (specifically interior parts) on Scion as they do Lexus?
Do you think they use the same amount of sound insulation, vibration cancelling methods and padding/cushioning on Scion as they do Lexus?
The answer to all three is: No, they do not.
However, the A/C will blow just as cold in a Scion as it does in a Lexus. Air bags surround you and make you as safe in a Scion as a Lexus. The warranties between Scion and Lexus are not proportionate to their respective prices.
When you buy a Lexus, you are paying extra for the illusion of a better quality riding experience. It's quieter, smoother, and the dealership will kiss your ass until it blisters.
But the cars are built pretty much the same. A Lexus ES is just a little bit better than a Toyota Camry, but they're pretty much the same car but the ES *might* use better quality interior parts. The drivetrains are the same. The price however, is very different. They do have that prestigious 'Lexus' badging though...

Toyota could have built the FR-S to Lexus "quality standards" and it would be maybe slightly faster, definitely quieter, and the buying experience would have been very different. But would you pay an extra $20,000 for a Lexus FR-S?
I don't think many people would because this car is marketed to younger drivers (unlike myself) and they want you to buy a Toyota product over a Mustang, Camaro or other sporty marque/brand. They know you guys want a sporty affordable car that runs and handles well, looks cool, and can be modded. Most older drivers will be looking at cars that the seats are cushy because they have hemorrhoids, a big trunk for the golf clubs, and a usable back seat for the grandkids. They also want a car that gives the illusion of being SAFE. Most older drivers don't give a shit about 0 - 60 times or lateral G-force capability.

For the $25,000 price point, they did an admirable job. Yes, this car will have squeaks and rattles but if taken care of, I also bet it will last 200,000 miles without given the owner(s) too many serious problems. Just like a Lexus.

Like everything else, you get what you pay for. Buy a cheap car, get a cheap car. You want perceived quality, buy a more expensive car. Only you can decide if the extra money spent is being spent wisely on items that are important to YOU.

Well said. Perceived value is the key.

Another guy mentioned driving the car home after paying $25k and feeling like he just stole it with a giant grin on his face. I felt the same way. I've driven BMWs, Audis, Merc, etc etc etc but TO ME I could give a crap about the QUALITY of the materials used. Build quality is more important but the DRIVE is key.

At the same time we have people complaining about the quality of the materials used.

If someone thinks this car needs to be more than it is then maybe it isn't the car for them.

If you want luxury then why are you shopping for a performance car?

I bought a Jeep Wrangler for $27k new several years ago because I wanted a 4x4 that I could drive daily and have loads of fun off road with. The quality of the materials inside, the build quality, the stereo, etc. etc. etc. all absolute CRAP. But when I took it offroad and put it into 4-low it could climb a damned tree. In snow it was absolutely amazing. There were squeaks and rattles and I knew that was what you get with a Jeep. The service at the Jeep dealer I took it to AFTER I bought it was amazing. Warranty is excellent.

At $25k you need to specialize. You want performance you get performance, you want a 4x4 you get a 4x4, you want luxury you can probably find it but it'll ride like a sailboat most likely.

$50k-$80k and up, yea there you can generalize. You can get a sports coupe with high quality leather, excellent ride, handling, power, bluetooth, nav, HIDs, wood finish and a dealership full of douches that will kiss your ass.

Why are people trying to make comparisons?

[Capstan]

Originally Posted by Chewie4299

Why are people trying to make comparisons?

Well, I think its because there are a lot of different kinds of cars around so why not?

[blu_]

I was driving a Passat Wagon TDI in the UK this month. With 2k miles on it had a number rattles and the passenger window had the worst squeak I have heard.

It also turned itself off at stops to save fuel. Kinda seemed like it was stalling to me. Pretty embarrassing ;p

[Skyhound]

Yes, some people over-react to little problems the FR-S has and are like "OMG my speaker grille rattles so this car is crap". Though little problems are still problems. I paid good, hard-earned money for a whole, working car.

Now going to the dealership to have these "bullshit" problems fixed is THE best thing to do for the rest of us FR-S owners and the future of the FR-S. If these problems aren't solved/improved than it will become part of the reputation of the car. It will depreciate in value, reviewers will knock it's poor interior quality, and people who aren't die-hard FR-S enthusiasts or track car drivers won't buy this car. Toyota and Subaru won't be able to make back the investment they put into the R&D for this car and the FR-S joins the ranks of the Toyota Solara.

Yes, the car is amazing to drive. Yes, it looks amazing. Yes, it is extremely affordable. Is it perfect? No. Can it be improved upon? Hell yes. This car can have more horsepower, better interior, steering controls, SatNav, etc. It can be better than any BMW, Merc, Jag, or Audi. If anything, it just kind of sounds like you're annoyed over not having the best car you could possibly have.

[Chewie4299]

Originally Posted by Capstan

Well, I think its because there are a lot of different kinds of cars around so why not?

Yes, out of context that DOES make me look like an idiot. Congrats.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by .Alex

The radio does not bother me because its an easy fix, but the lack of steering controls does. If my $16k xB came standard with them, the FR-S should at least have them as an option.

Instead of spending that extra money fabricating buttons for your steering wheel, they used it to make a better chassis, or better suspension.

Money was used in the right places, like, function > form

[v12]

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

Instead of spending that extra money fabricating buttons for your steering wheel, they used it to make a better chassis, or better suspension.

Money was used in the right places, like, function > form

and form still looks awesome!

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by v12

and form still looks awesome!

True, but till a certain point, the outer shell falls under function due to its amazingly low Coefficient Drag ratio being very VERY slippery for a production car.

[eriktherod]

I agree with the OP to a point. People have to be realistic about the car for the price, if you want extras then get the BRZ Limited. Sure, lots of "other cars" come with these things standard but they also don't come with a Boxer engine, diff, RWD, and all the fun bits too. There's a reason you bought a performance car that looks good instead of the rather bland Corolla/Camry SE.

As for the fitment, I agree that you shouldn't just 'accept' rattles or other issues if they bother you. The car may not be "luxury" but it doesn't mean it should be made like crap and I am sure Toyota would agree.

On my Si, I used to have a few rattles (sunroof area, passenger mirror, stereo, loose hanger clips in the back) here and there. They were annoying and a lot of times I thought I should get them fixed under warranty but never did. I managed to fix 90% of them myself, but that's beside the point.

I've had a few "sterile c0ckpit" drives and not noticed a single rattle on the FR-S yet. The plastic interior trim doesn't bother me and none of it feels "loose" or unsecured. If you have a rattle (perhaps in the door speaker area), I'd have them take a look at it. Sometimes it could be a loose/damaged clip, easy fix.

These cars are not difficult to take apart as far as the interior goes. It'd take the dealer 30 minutes or less to take a door panel off, fix it, and put it back on.

[Ebay]

I've owned a variety of cars and trucks, some sporty and some not...69 Caprice w/396, 75 Stingray "mint", 95 Z-71, 69, 70, 73, 90, 98 Ford PUs, 95, 04 Avalons (new), 87 Corolla SR5, 82 Celica GT (new), 03 Corolla S (new), 05 Corolla SE (new)...and some I can't remember. WITH 1,100 MILES BEHIND THE WHEEL OF MY 2013 RAVEN BLACK FR-S, I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT IS THE CAR; MORE THAN ANY OTHER, THAT "MAKES ME WANT TO DRIVE IT"!

P.S. I forgot the 91 Q45 in my driveway...hope she forgives me; I still love her.

[Nepenthe]

Originally Posted by sho220

FR-S is a Five Guys burger...it's reasonably priced and stomps a lot of pricier competition...

...but unfortunately also comes with the most nasty french fries ever.

I don't understand the thread. If there are problems and they can be dealt with, let's get them out in the open. That's 50% of why I come here. If all we're going to do is ma$turbate about how great the vehicle is and how wise our purchases were, I don't see a reason to come here.

Only real issue I have is the rattling. I have the passenger side door speaker rattle on low bass notes, the dash above the radio tapping when it gets warm, and the intermittent (usually disappearing and reappearing in tandem with the g-forces of cornering) rattling of the wiring harness inside each door.

[K2]

STOP TALKING ABOUT BURGERS!
Now I have to stop at Wendy's on the way home.

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by K2

STOP TALKING ABOUT BURGERS!
Now I have to stop at Wendy's on the way home.

Fatty.