86 vs new Supra--review by TFL car

[reeves]

I for one, hope they DO NOT make a 3 car lineup. Spend your time & money to focus on perfecting the 2 you already got. Like, for example.. make a little effort to get rid of that damn torque dip already! THEN, you can MAYBE start to think about a third sports car.

I wouldn't want anything cheaper than an 86 anyway. I spent more for the BRZ over the FRS at the time I bought it, and would likely do the same for the next sports car I buy.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by reeves

I wouldn't want anything cheaper than an 86 anyway. I spent more for the BRZ over the FRS at the time I bought it, and would likely do the same for the next sports car I buy.

I would love to see a resurgence of the tiny sports car like we had with Midgets, Sprites, Spitfires, Crosleys, Siatas, Saab Sonnets, etc. The Japanese have had that market segment with their kei cars like the Honda Beat, Suzuki Cappuccino, Autozam AZ-1, and the Europeans even got one with the Smart Roadster. They're basically just stripped down, oversized go karts with tiny turbocharged engines.

Kei cars may not be able to pass US safety regulations, but the fact that the Smarts we have here are about the same size and were able to pass leaves some hope. If Toyota were to develop a sub-$20K sports car in the kei car market segment as the "third brother," it could possibly revive that tiny car racing community that used to buy MG Midgets and try to squeeze every hoofprint of horsepower out of them they could.

This is the Honda S660, the successor to the Honda Beat. This is similar to what I figured Tada was talking about with the third brother.

[extrashaky]

Some other kei sports cars:

Suzuki Cappuccino




Autozam AZ-1




Honda Beat




Daihatsu Copen




And as proof that not only Japan is building these, the Smart Roadster




I mean, with all the goobers pushing tiny "city cars," why can't we have a car in the city car market segment that is fun to drive?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Some other kei sports cars:

Suzuki Cappuccino




Autozam AZ-1




Honda Beat




Daihatsu Copen




And as proof that not only Japan is building these, the Smart Roadster




I mean, with all the goobers pushing tiny "city cars," why can't we have a car in the city car market segment that is fun to drive?

We used to get Kei type cars here. Nobody bought them so they just gave up on us.


People can laugh but these things were a blast to drive.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

We used to get Kei type cars here. Nobody bought them so they just gave up on us.

People can laugh but these things were a blast to drive.

I would love to have access to just about any of these cars. I was extremely disappointed BMW brought the 4Two and not the Roadster to the US. I believe the Roadster (assuming it could pass government muster) would have been a much bigger success.

As far as a 3rd tier for Toyota, if they don't do a 3rd, I would just as soon they kill off the 86 and bring back the MR2 rather than keep the 86 and the Supra. The 86 will just end up being the "baby" Supra, unless the MKII is significantly different I don't see it continuing very long without turning into a more "refined" car.

With the Corvette going mid-engine here soon it would be a good time for Toyota to jump on that bandwagon.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I would love to have access to just about any of these cars. I was extremely disappointed BMW brought the 4Two and not the Roadster to the US. I believe the Roadster (assuming it could pass government muster) would have been a much bigger success.

As far as a 3rd tier for Toyota, if they don't do a 3rd, I would just as soon they kill off the 86 and bring back the MR2 rather than keep the 86 and the Supra. The 86 will just end up being the "baby" Supra, unless the MKII is significantly different I don't see it continuing very long without turning into a more "refined" car.

With the Corvette going mid-engine here soon it would be a good time for Toyota to jump on that bandwagon.

My guess is that if they do make the third sibling that the want to make it will be a hybrid or electric of some description or another so engine placement will not be a huge factor.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

We used to get Kei type cars here. Nobody bought them so they just gave up on us.

That was not a kei car. It was Suzuki's next level up above the kei class and didn't meet the kei requirements.

It didn't sell because it was kind of a turd that fell apart in normal use.

[reeves]

The 3rd sibling would never work, financially. They need to focus on refining what they already have with the 86 & Supra.

Tada was quoted as saying if Toyota developed the Supra themselves from the ground up, it would've costed $100K or more. How much is the "cheap" 3rd sibling going to cost, $40K at least (If it's 100% Toyota)..? Which defeats the point of it being affordable.

Unless Toyota partners with Lotus or BMW [again]? to make this car. Then the detractors will curse it to hell again saying it's just another manufacturer's rebadged car.

The only way financially to make a cheap 3rd sibling that's 100% Toyota is to re-purpose something they already have. The new corolla platform, perhaps? Similar to what Honda does with the Civic. But then it won't be mid-engine or RWD...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

That was not a kei car. It was Suzuki's next level up above the kei class and didn't meet the kei requirements.

It didn't sell because it was kind of a turd that fell apart in normal use.

Close enough for North American standards.
ALL cars of that vintage and price range fell apart in normal use. Except for the first models of the Sunfire. Those sonsofbitchs are still driving around.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

We used to get Kei type cars here. Nobody bought them so they just gave up on us.


People can laugh but these things were a blast to drive.

Until someone gets T-boned. It's all fun and games, until someone gets hurt / injured. I'd never go that small , my xA is the smallest I'd ever consider

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Until someone gets T-boned. It's all fun and games, until someone gets hurt / injured. I'd never go that small , my xA is the smallest I'd ever consider

Oh the things were death traps by today's standard. When you consider they weighed over 1000 pounds less than a FRS you have to know that they would not meet today's standards. I have no clue how the Smart cars pull it off even with their 200 pounds over the Metro. This is the reason why I do not see a Kei type car coming back here.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by reeves

The only way financially to make a cheap 3rd sibling that's 100% Toyota...

Not being a sycophantic Toyota fanboy, I don't care at all if they make something that's not 100% Toyota. If a partnership produces a great car (like it did with the 86), why would it matter?

The S-FR and the Mini Superleggara concepts were strikingly similar in appearance. Since Toyota now has a relationship with BMW, I'd love to see them join forces to build a kei-class RWD roadster.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Not being a sycophantic Toyota fanboy, I don't care at all if they make something that's not 100% Toyota. If a partnership produces a great car (like it did with the 86), why would it matter?

The S-FR and the Mini Superleggara concepts were strikingly similar in appearance. Since Toyota now has a relationship with BMW, I'd love to see them join forces to build a kei-class RWD roadster.

I will never quite understand how they crammed that back seat into the SFR!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

The S-FR and the Mini Superleggara concepts were strikingly similar in appearance.

Yea the "strikingly" part is where they ran into the ugly forest and didn't survive unscathed....

Seriously though, I'm with you on the "pure" portion. I couldn't care less how the car gets designed or products as long is it meets the criteria I'm looking for at the time.