Anyone Else Considering an Automatic FR-S?

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I want to know why its a bad thing? The gears look like it has similar spacing to the manual.

It has the same ratio between each gear, while the manual's gears get closer. I think the purpose of this is to give you more acceleration in top gears to counter drag. And of course you want 1st gear to be extra short for an easy start.

Originally Posted by blur

Right. Especially with a torque converter sapping power. I just get the feeling that a manual is more bang for your buck, imo.

Torque converter will feel stronger at the same speed in first gear, but weaker at the same rpm since it gives you slightly more torque when you slip it. But it'll run out of steam faster.

[LeftFootBrake]

I will only be considering the auto version.

But then, most of my driving is via simulators, where left foot braking is faster for me. And more to my surprise than anyone else, I happen to be one of the faster guys (eg. I've qualified for the intel/iracing world champs coming up in March). BTW, I have been iRacing on triple screens with 160 degree field of view for over 3 years.

For me, getting a really smooth transition between braking and accelerating when trail-braking in a corner is a delight, regardless of how. And I find getting it right easier when LFB'ing than heel and toeing. (There's also the arguable safety advantages of reduced transfer time between accelerator and brake.)

But please don't go and misinterpret what I'm saying, though!

I realise many drivers gain considerable joy from executing good heel/toe operations. And good for them! I completely understand the joy of the dance, particularly for those (rare folk) that happen to be really good at it.

In turn, though, I hope they also seek to understand that there can also be joy found in Left Foot Braking. And that they then go on to realise that those of us (at least in Australia) who enjoy LFB'ing have been waiting a very long time for a reliable, affordable and feel/handling-focussed car that also comes with paddle shifters.

Regardless, I hope (and suspect) that the Chief Engineer of this project understood that such joy can be found. And that's actually all that matters. To help me confirm this, though, I would like to hear more information about the auto, particularly in terms of blipping when threshold braking and red-line holding capabilities. Does anyone have a link to such info that I may have missed in my searching?

Thanks for listening to my first post, fellow GT 86 enthusiasts.

[balance]

The best advice I can give to ppl who are debating between MT and AT is "When in doubt, get the AT".

LFB, welcome to the forum!

Left-foot-brake has its own places around the track. On MT cars, you simply can't use it when you have to downshift.

If you can use both (left and right) braking techniques resonably well, then how do you determine which technique you use where downshifting isn't required?

You let your datalogging determine that for you. Left-foot-braking has certain advantages like getting a quick weight transfer to the front when lifting-off the throttle isn't enough depending on the type of cars you drive, but it certainly isn't a holy grail to all your braking requirements.

[LeftFootBrake]

Originally Posted by balance

LFB, welcome to the forum!

Many thanks. I've been lurking for months.

You let your datalogging determine that for you. Left-foot-braking has certain advantages like getting a quick weight transfer to the front when lifting-off the throttle isn't enough depending on the type of cars you drive, but it certainly isn't a holy grail to all your braking requirements.

I can't talk for anyone else, but the analysis of my sim-driving data via McLaren's Atlas program (and the clock, which we know never lies) has me unequivocally convinced I am faster when LFB.

I know for some other drivers it's not quite as important. But in my case it makes a big difference. And FWIW, I think you're missing the most important reason of why. It's not about the speed of weight transfer but the easier balancing it affords when transitioning from trail-braking to accelerating.

But it so happens that lap times have nothing to do with the point of my post. Rather, the point was about the joy that can be had from getting the transition phase just right. And that is something you can enjoy just as much on a deserted twisty public road as you can on a track. And I find it easier to repeatably achieve just the right balance when left foot braking.

[Moshpit37]

I'm going to test drive both, (if possible) but I'm leaning towards the automatic. I've always loved the idea of paddle shifters (I know they aren't "true" paddle shifters) and I've never owned a manual yet. This will be my daily driver.... I just don't know yet, but still leaning towards auto.

[sprintertrueno86]

this been posted yet?

[u2b]d1m-h9GjioY[/u2b]

looks fun to me.

[Enemies]

Ouch, that was kind of grating on the ears. Whoever mounted that camera is fired!

[jor8888]

depend on how hard the clutch is.

[[M]]

Yes, I am considering an automatic, FRS no, BRZ yes. I would like to get some good time in test driving both of them both on freeway and streets. I currently drive a MT 95 Integra, and I'm not really enjoying driving it. Im really hoping that driving the BRZ will help me realize how much better driving manual can be.

[balance]

Originally Posted by LeftFootBrake

I can't talk for anyone else, but the analysis of my sim-driving data via McLaren's Atlas program (and the clock, which we know never lies) has me unequivocally convinced I am faster when LFB.

You are talking about laptimes from the simulator? Real world results may vary as it always does.

I know for some other drivers it's not quite as important. But in my case it makes a big difference. And FWIW, I think you're missing the most important reason of why. It's not about the speed of weight transfer but the easier balancing it affords when transitioning from trail-braking to accelerating.

I think you are missing my point. I was simply trying to convey that there are things that are far more important than the easy balancing from braking to throttling. LFB is just one of the techniques. You can balance your car with throttle, steering, braking, etc....

But it so happens that lap times have nothing to do with the point of my post. Rather, the point was about the joy that can be had from getting the transition phase just right. And that is something you can enjoy just as much on a deserted twisty public road as you can on a track. And I find it easier to repeatably achieve just the right balance when left foot braking.

I used to be a big proponent of LFB because my driving career started from a AWD rally car. Since then, I moved to tarmac (road racing) driving and my view has completely changed on the LFB. I still do it and believe that it's a great weapon to possess whichever venue of motorsports you do. But, again, it doesn't matter whether you use left or right foot to get your braking done as long as you get your entry speed right. For you, I see that LFB works well and that's great! But, as you progress more as a driver, you will see that there are many different options that would yield a same results and sticking to one principle often leaves you behind. Just my 0.02 (All this only matters if you care enough about being a better driver though. )

[LeftFootBrake]

Real world results may vary as it always does

Depends where you do your real world racing. Real world racing for me is the simulator.

But, again, it doesn't matter whether you use left or right foot to get your braking done as long as you get your entry speed right.

As someone who presents themselves as very experienced, the fact you would say this really surprises me. You must know that entry speed is not enough. Rotational speed and slip angles demand attention when you really want to start setting WRs. And LFB makes it easier to get these aspects right, particularly for the skilled practitioner who is effectively using it as a form of dynamic brake bias control.
The attached analysis of Schumaker vs Barrichello doesn't do a great job of illustrating this point, but at least talks to it a little.
I can say with certainty that in the "professional" sim driving community, where the drivers are capable of driving to the limit, this has been discussed to death and LFB is used by virtually everyone whose sole intent is to win.
But I note that we have moved a long way from the original points I was making.

[Gadflyii]

Depends on the type of automatic.

If it is a slush box with a torque converter, then no, I will get a manual. If it is DCT/SCT sequential, I'll get the auto.

[KevinDuMa]

the paddle shifters move when the steering wheel turns...lame

[balance]

I have zero experience with the simulator thing. I tried the I-racing few times based on recommendations from my racing buddies, but it kept giving me the headaches. All my driving relates to the real world.

That said, my choice of words "entry speed" were not so great, I should have said the "corner entry" that encompasses all those terms like slip angles, rotational speed, etc.

And Shumacher? Come on, man. The man is the multiple world champion! I'm just a guy who does time attacks, lapping and teach at trackdays. Sure I hope I can drive like him, but we all know that the reality is far from it.

IMO, left foot braking is visceral in that some can do it comfortably with little practice while others simple can't no matter how hard they practice. I encourage some of my students to engage in LFB, but it simply doesn't work for some. And, that's all I am trying to let you know based on my real world driving experience.

I sincerely urge you to go out and drive in real world environments! I bet it's going to be so much more fun than your simulator. Don't be surprised your LFB skill don't translate into the real world driving, though.

Peace out